Real Loveless? Food for Thought!

[Kevin Jones]

I find that the early Loveless (Lawndale) knives bring about 20-25% more than the Riverside knives. But the 37 knives marked Loveless-Johnson bring about 4-4.5 times the amount paid for knives being made today.

Loveless is a standard that connot be denied. In my view, only Scagle knives have increasced in value at a higher rate.

Thanks for your input AG as I'm a bit disappointed that until now we haven't had more of the "Loveless Experts" contributing to these threads leaving us only opinions to consider.

I do have a couple follow-up questions?

So even though we will never know exactly how much "hands on" work Mr. Loveless has contributed in making his Riverside knives over the years, can we assume that they were for the most part created primarily by his apprentices and Lawndale knives were primarily created by him?

Do you believe there are any Riverside knives where Bob Loveless completely created an entire knife on his own? And if so, do you feel you and/or other experts could distinguish this knife from his shop-made knives of the same period?

So since you state that Lawndale knives bring a 20-25% premium over Riverside knives along with the general opinion here that his later knives are much superior in overall quality, does this mean that collectors do in fact prefer Bob's sole authorship knives over the better quality of his shop produced knives?

If any other "Loveless Experts" want to contribute, please do.

Bobby and Peter, please feel free to call Bob Loveless for answers, but I wouldn't expect too much. Would probably be a very short telephone call.

 

[A. G. Russell]

Some of you people seem to have strange ideas about Bob Loveless, He is a gentleman and will answer intelligent questions when asked in a civil manner. Like any elderly gentleman he has little patience and will not suffer fools gladly. Ask your questions in a way that does not dismiss his enormous contrabution to this industry. Can he be curt?: of course. He is seldom rude to those who seem to know what they are talking about, like most of us, He knows that he can always learn something new.

 

[RogerP]

I have a question: does anyone think that, at this stage, Jim Merritt needs any supervision whatsoever from Bob to turn out knives of the quality buyers have come to expect of contemporary Loveless knives?

Or is it more likely he now both knows as well as Bob what a Loveless knife is, and possesses to ability to turn them out without supervision or "approval".

Roger

 

[A. G. Russell]

Roger, you are right on. A good partnership has to be like a fine marriage, both parties must have the ability to totally understand the other and to care about them as well.

 

[Bobby Branton]

Thanks for your input AG as I'm a bit disappointed that until now we haven't had more of the "Loveless Experts" contributing to these threads leaving us only opinions to consider.

I do have a couple follow-up questions?

So even though we will never know exactly how much "hands on" work Mr. Loveless has contributed in making his Riverside knives over the years, can we assume that they were for the most part created primarily by his apprentices and Lawndale knives were primarily created by him?

Do you believe there are any Riverside knives where Bob Loveless completely created an entire knife on his own? And if so, do you feel you and/or other experts could distinguish this knife from his shop-made knives of the same period?

So since you state that Lawndale knives bring a 20-25% premium over Riverside knives along with the general opinion here that his later knives are much superior in overall quality, does this mean that collectors do in fact prefer Bob's sole authorship knives over the better quality of his shop produced knives?

If any other "Loveless Experts" want to contribute, please do.

Bobby and Peter, please feel free to call Bob Loveless for answers, but I wouldn't expect too much. Would probably be a very short telephone call.

I've spoken to Bob numerous times, but never felt like I needed to ask him how he conducted business. I am not the one who is questioning his business ethics.
I had an invitation to visit his shop in 2004 while I was in LA, but had to cancel due to my work with a movie studio.
If I did call him, it would not be to ask him question on how he conducts business. I will leave that for the naysayers.
Loveless is now a brand. I doubt if Enzo Ferrari built each and every car.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but the Lawndale knives are more valuable because they were made during the period that he lived in Lawndale and the number of knives made during that period were significantly lower than the number that have been produced in Riverside.
Kevin, with all due respect, this would seem like a great topic and a chance for someone in your organization to do an interview about all things Loveless with one of the legends in the knife world. I'm sure he would be open to clear up any misinformation regarding Loveless knives and possibly share some insight into other spects of the knife world
. A.G. would be a great story also. We have two legends here that no one has thought to interview except Blade Magazine.
Both of these men should be video taped with their thoughts about our the past and the future of our industry for historical purposes.

BB

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

Loveless Knives have never been advertised/marketed as sole-authorship knives. They have always been promoted as made in a collaborative, workshop environment to RW Loveless's specifications. Why is that so hard to understand?

Bob Loveless is the best straight knife designer the world has ever known. Thats why the knives with his mark bring the big bucks. There are hundreds of makers who make a cleaner knife. There are makers who make a cleaner Loveless style knife.

If any one is stupid enough to buy a 5-20K knife without doing their "homework", well I have no sympathy for them. They probably buy lots of really dumb stuff and can afford to do so.

As far as the pricing of different stamps, in my opinion its based on rarity of the knives, not sole authorship appeal.

I have deep admiration for Loveless knives and would like to be a collector of them one day. I have studied them for 20 years. Its probably time, huh?

 

[Kohai999]

I have deep admiration for Loveless knives and would like to be a collector of them one day. I have studied them for 20 years. Its probably time, huh?

Me too, Anthony, but I just cannot bring myself to spend around $10,000+ on a knife(Stag handled chute at the "very good amigo" price)....I admire Kevin's balls at being able to pull the trigger....by the time I actually grow a big enough set, they will probably be double that price.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Lorien]

I think it's a testament to Jim Merrit that he mostly makes the knives and doesn't require his name on them. He obviously believes in the Loveless brand, and is trusted to make knives which bear the attention to detail and design that Loveless knives are known for.
A Real Loveless is a knife which came from Loveless. The only Fake Loveless is one that came from somewhere else.
There is only one place where a Real Loveless is produced, and regardless of how or who produces it, there is no other brand of knife that it's the same as.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[Kevin Jones]

I've spoken to Bob numerous times, but never felt like I needed to ask him how he conducted business. I am not the one who is questioning his business ethics.
I had an invitation to visit his shop in 2004 while I was in LA, but had to cancel due to my work with a movie studio.
If I did call him, it would not be to ask him question on how he conducts business. I will leave that for the naysayers.
BB

Hi Bobby, I'm not one of the naysayers and I wasn't at all trying to be disrespectful to Bob. However, I have heard examples of him being very abrupt/short with folks who telephone him. But to AG's point, I'm sure that has a lot to do with the questions asked and how they are asked. Not sure how much he would welcome questions as to how he conducts his business. You would know better than I, as I have never spoken to Bob Loveless.

If any one is stupid enough to buy a 5-20K knife without doing their "homework", well I have no sympathy for them.

I certainly agree. :thumbup:

Me too, Anthony, but I just cannot bring myself to spend around $10,000+ on a knife(Stag handled chute at the "very good amigo" price)....I admire Kevin's balls at being able to pull the trigger....by the time I actually grow a big enough set, they will probably be double that price.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

As you know, I did a lot of studying on Loveless knives over a few years before pulling the trigger, my friend.

 

[A. G. Russell]

I have deep admiration for Loveless knives and would like to be a collector of them one day. I have studied them for 20 years. Its probably time, huh?

As a dealer in knives I was trying to get my customers to buy Loveless knives before they jumped up to $95, I paid him $175 for an early if not the first Big Bear sold it for 10 times that and now it is worth 10s of thousands. Seven or eight years ago I finally stopped trying so hard to push Loveless knives of on my customers and started keepling them. I am happy top say that I own almost 50 and consider them my retirement fund.