Real Ruby Scales on a J. Russell Butter Knife?

vsndesigns

vsndesigns

Joined
Apr 14, 2023
Messages
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I think I bought myself a kitchen J. Russell & Co. butter knife for twenty bucks at a swap meet last weekend. Kinda sharp for a butter knife though… it came without a handle or box, just the blade wrapped in blue painter’s tape for whatever reason. It’s got five holes in the tang, and I soaked it overnight in Navy rust remover jelly. Now I’m thinking about starting with 400 grit up to 2000 grit to polish it out to a nice mirror finish. Here’s the kicker: I’m seriously considering adding real ruby scales to it, if I can find a local lapidary class to prep the slabs without shattering them. Thoughts? Has anyone here ever tried using corundum slabs for scales before, or am I about to break something expensive and cry in my shop?20250710_214742.jpg20250710_172800.jpg20250710_184803.jpg20250710_184817.jpg20250710_184825.jpg20250710_184832.jpg20250710_184843.jpg20250710_214754.jpgs-l1600 (1).jpgs-l1600 (2).jpg
 
Don't waste your time. What you have is a old worn out Green River Buffalo Skinner. Lots of blade loss, the tip has been reshaped.....
At one time it looked like this-
NXWrwDU.jpg
 
I would think ruby (even lab created) would be a bit too fragile for a handle. Hard, yes, but you run the risk of it cracking depending on the crystal growth pattern and internal stresses.
 
Y’all see a ‘worn-out skinner.’ Fair enough, and now that I know it’s not a butter knife, thanks for setting me straight. Learned something here. What I see is a battle-worn veteran of meat-cutting history. This wasn’t made for display cases, it was hand-stamped and forged sometime between 1860–1880, then used, sharpened, and trusted by real butchers. The handle didn’t rot , it was cleansed by time, water, and work. Sure, it’s missing the little diamond stamp. But this piece earned its scars long before your factory-stamped collectibles ever hit a sheath. I’m not restoring it to ‘factory’, I’m giving it a second life. Mirror finish, ruby scales, not to fake perfection, but to honor the grit. And hey, knowing what I know now, I’d say I found a diamond...er... gem in the rough. I already made the rookie mistake of ordering three half-round ruby ferrules from India, treated with beryllium (if that even matters here). So I might as well lean in. Drilling corundum? Yeah, I know what I’m in for, and after playing with spinel, I know I might have asked for it. But since these boules come in pre-cut halves, I figure I’ll sand 'em smooth, polish with cerium oxide, and maybe leave just a whisper of the tang exposed around the scales… y’know, in case it takes a tumble spine-first. Someone mentioned my stamped letters are crooked too, and yeah, they are. All the better. That’s not a flaw. That’s the human hand at work. I’ll post photos when it’s done, and y’all can let me know if the rubies helped or hurt. Either way, I’m going for it.
 
One thing I forgot to add, mine isn’t just a knife. It’s from the Buffalo Hunting Era. 1860 to 1880, when this blade wasn’t hanging on walls, it was doing work. The red of the ruby scales? That’s not just fancy flair. That’s blood memory. That’s a nod to the grit, the labor, and the hands that used it when bison roamed and butchers earned their scars. This knife doesn't need a diamond stamp............ It has the spirit of the frontier embedded in corundum.
 
It's definitely an older piece, but you'd need information about the history of their markings and construction over time to establish exactly how old it is. Nice that you appreciate the company history and all, but I'd say modern butchers and meat cutters absolutely "earn their scars" and are extremely hard working folks. The slaughter of the bison was a terrible thing I personally find distasteful to wax poetic about, because it was a deliberate effort to deprive indigenous peoples of a natural resource central to their way of life. However, it'll be interesting to see if you're able to successfully make scales from that ruby...it'll be quite the labor due to its tremendous hardness.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It's definitely an older piece, but you'd need information about the history of their markings and construction over time to establish exactly how old it is. Nice that you appreciate the company history and all, but I'd say modern butchers and meat cutters absolutely "earn their scars" and are extremely hard working folks. The slaughter of the bison was a terrible thing I personally find distasteful to wax poetic about, because it was a deliberate effort to deprive indigenous peoples of a natural resource central to their way of life. However, it'll be interesting to see if you're able to successfully make scales from that ruby...it'll be quite the labor due to its tremendous hardness.
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Actually, indigenous peoples helped wipe out the buffalo. Sitting Bull's warriors turned buffalo hunters were instrumental in wiping out the last buffalo herd of about 10,000 in what is now Manitoba. They had escaped to Canada after the Little Big Horn massacre.
 
Alberta Ed said:
Actually, indigenous peoples helped wipe out the buffalo. Sitting Bull's warriors turned buffalo hunters were instrumental in wiping out the last buffalo herd of about 10,000 in what is now Manitoba. They had escaped to Canada after the Little Big Horn massacre.
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That isn't the gotcha' you seem to think it is. I am wholly disinterested in getting into an argument over the well-documented fact that the U.S. government actively endorsed the destruction of bison to deprive native peoples of them and it's the last mention of the topic I'll put here.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
How do you know the knife is that old? I believe they are still being made.
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The 5 pin handle seems to indicate that it is from the early 20th century at the latest.
vsndesigns said:
it was hand-stamped and forged sometime between 1860–1880, then used, sharpened, and trusted by real butchers.
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LOL.....you don't know that.....
These knives were not made by hand. They were banged out by steam and water powered trip hammers en mass. The markings were stamped by machines. They were produced and shipped by the gross to vendors across America, hundreds of thousands of Green River knives were sent west.
The markings on this knife are odd to say the least, The letters are irregular, oddly shaped, and seem to have been done by hand rather than machine stamped, something that just wasn't done in the Green River Works production environment. There is no way you can mass produce knives then have each one hand stamped one letter at a time.....which bring up the possibility of fakery.....In the mid to late 19th century the Green River marking was recognized as a huge selling point. Russell was competing with Sheffield and German makers, and many knives were made capitalizing on the Green River name.
 
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Arathol said:
The 5 pin handle seems to indicate that it is from the early 20th century at the latest.

LOL.....you don't know that.....
These knives were not made by hand. They were banged out by steam and water powered trip hammers en mass. The markings were stamped by machines. They were produced and shipped by the gross to vendors across America, hundreds of thousands of Green River knives were sent west.
The markings on this knife are odd to say the least, The letters are irregular, oddly shaped, and seem to have been done by hand rather than machine stamped, something that just wasn't done in the Green River Works production environment. There is no way you can mass produce knives then have each one hand stamped one letter at a time.....which bring up the possibility of fakery.....In the mid to late 19th century the Green River marking was recognized as a huge selling point. Russell was competing with Sheffield and German makers, and many knives were made capitalizing on the Green River name.
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I believe the lettering is an acid etching, not stamping.
 
Arathol said:
Yeah it does look like an etch, totally odd considering GRW knives were stamped.......
I'd like to see if it has a tapered tang.
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Stamping is a blanking process, and knives are not stamped with a maker's mark at the time they're blanked. The mark is on a fully ground knife and the mark, even in stamping, is typically applied AFTER the grinding process, or else would be put somewhere like a ricasso that provides a flat stock surface to bear that mark. All Green River knives I have ever seen, whether vintage or modern, have been etched. Later examples are simply not done so deep as on vintage models, least of all being current generation ones, which are laser-etched and so the most superficial.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Stamping is a blanking process, and knives are not stamped with a maker's mark at the time they're blanked. The mark is on a fully ground knife and the mark, even in stamping, is typically applied AFTER the grinding process, or else would be put somewhere like a ricasso that provides a flat stock surface to bear that mark. All Green River knives I have ever seen, whether vintage or modern, have been etched. Later examples are simply not done so deep as on vintage models, least of all being current generation ones, which are laser-etched and so the most superficial.
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I have never seen any reference to GRW knives as being etched until fairly recently. Everything from the 19th century and early 20th century is always described as being stamped, not etched.

This is a picture of a late 19th century knife, markings are stamped
TR0ccyO.jpg
 
That is also very likely etched. Etchings can be made quite deep while remaining fairly crisp. If stuff is described as being stamped it's often because there is visible depth to it. However, this does not mean it wasn't etched. Simply google image searching "antique green river knife" brings up countless clearly etched examples, including ones dating to around the time of the OP's. Military sabers often featured extensive and elaborate deep acid-etched designs. If these were stamped there would likely be some small degree of deformation on the backside of the blade resulting from it, and getting a stamp on a beveled surface is challenging. You would see many partial stamps if this were the case, as one sees on other tools, even when those tools have flat surfaces where the stamping is made. Etchings may be made clearly on curved and angled surfaces without issue, by contrast, and were better suited to high detail.
 
No, its a stamp. If you look closely you can see the edges of the letters appear to be radiused, pushed inward by the stamp.

As far as etching goes, you can hardly compare making a higher end piece that has low production or is a one-off with making cheap knives by the thousands. It takes time to etch things, and some work to make nice clean etchings, and a bunch of extra cost. When you are shipping more than 5000 blades a month to keep up with orders, just stamping them with a mark is so much easier and cost effective. From what I have heard, GRW went to acid etching sometime just before the turn of the 20th century.
 
Arathol said:
No, its a stamp. If you look closely you can see the edges of the letters appear to be radiused, pushed inward by the stamp.

As far as etching goes, you can hardly compare making a higher end piece that has low production or is a one-off with making cheap knives by the thousands. It takes time to etch things, and some work to make nice clean etchings, and a bunch of extra cost. When you are shipping more than 5000 blades a month to keep up with orders, just stamping them with a mark is so much easier and cost effective. From what I have heard, GRW went to acid etching sometime just before the turn of the 20th century.
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While it's entirely possible I'm incorrect in the case of your specific example, this wouldn't erase the fact that you asserted this was likely a fake due to it being etched when etching is a technique that Russell absolutely used across a wide range of its production history, and acid etching is something that is easily done repeatedly and cost effectively, and they did it. A lot.
 
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