Real Tortose Shell (Now with Photos)

eisman

eisman

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Can real shell be used? I've found a couple pieces 6"x4" from the 1920's. It's not very thick, 1/8". It would be enough to do half a dozen slipjoints by length and width, but I don't know anyone whose ever used the real thing.

I've added these photos of my find, which is a 1920's cigarette case made entirely of TS with sterling hinges and clasp. The darker stripes showing in the photo are elastiic bands to retain the cigs. Personally I don't smoke, so I see no reason not to use this material in a better purpose.

I have provenance, it came from a old estate where the original owners has "real" money. The two sides each measure 3.2" x 5". The photos really don't do justice to the shell, it has really nice figure.

ts1.jpg

ts2.jpg
 
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i dont see why not but then again ive never used it but you can use almost anything as a handle so :)
 
Put a price and a pic of it up and you will know shortly if slipjoint makers can use it.
Ken.
 
eisman said:
Can real shell be used? I've found a couple pieces 6"x4" from the 1920's. It's not very thick, 1/8". It would be enough to do half a dozen slipjoints by length and width, but I don't know anyone whose ever used the real thing.
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I believe it was legal to use in the 1920's but I'd guess its been banned in the US for a number of years. I think you need to do more checking into it before you do use it. Having the right paperwork will help.
 
It is supposed to be pretty durable, it was a popular material for guitar picks and hair combs. It may be a challenge finding information on how to work with it, I've read it was heated and formed or flattened, then cut to shape and polished, but that's about all I know... and has been mentioned, it is a material from protected species so you will need proper documentation if you ever want to sell or transport the resulting knives
 
When using it as a scale, gold foil behind it will really highlight the colors. A dry heat like a hairdryer should be used to form it if needed.


-Xander
 
guys
forgive my ignorance here but don't they still eat turtles here in the good ol USA??
if they can kill and eat them are they breaking the law?
 
Raymond Richard said:
I believe it was legal to use in the 1920's but I'd guess its been banned in the US for a number of years. I think you need to do more checking into it before you do use it. Having the right paperwork will help.
Click to expand...

Precisely. I can't remember all the regulations about fair use within the US but the CITES regs are easy to find. I do know that in general, any tortoise shell used in the making of anything new since 1973 (guitar pick, jewelry, violin bow or knife scale) is illegal. Even if you buy legal TS and use parts from that item (whatever it was) and repair or make something new with the TS it is considered newly dated and illegal. My initial impression is that you can't sell it without a certificate of provenance.
 
Tortoise shell is illegal to use in making anything you want to sell. Tortoise goods have to have been made a long time ago, and have solid provenance, to be legally sold.

Info:
The turtles eaten, now mostly banned, are not the same turtle as the giant tortoise that this material comes from.
The main US turtle eaten was the Diamond Back Terrapin. The Galapagos Tortoise is more like the ones they harvested for their shells. Both are severely endangered because of these practices.
 
Conservationists against recycling strike!

Still, the amount of time it took to get multiple inqueries on a possible sale was intresting.
 
Ok
i was confused and got "Tortise" mixed up with "Turtle".
so i'm curious since you can't use "Tortise" without violating "C.I.T.I.E.S" can you use "Turtle" without trouble??
i guess in the "Swamps" people love to eat them shell is shell. i don't personally think "Turtle/ Tortise" should be killed but if they are a "Pest" like "Gator/Snakes" why not use everything including the skin/shell ?
just trying to understand , still on coffee #1 . it don't really matter outside of curiosity .
 
"Tortoise shell" is a misnomer. This material is not made from the shells of tortoises, but from the shells of sea turtles. Always has been.
 
Good catch Bill. Tortoise shell is mainly from the hawskbiil sea turtle. The stuff from land tortoises was a very minor source. I should have been clearer, as I was mainly thinking of the difference between turtles and tortoises.
 
You might have a legal piece of shell. But once you put it on a knife it now must be proven to be legal again. Hence the provinence or paper trail. There is also legal elephant ivory that can be sold in goods, but a piece of paper must accompany that ivory telling where it came from. It can be a real nightmare if it falls into question. Knives have been confiscated when questions arise. One well known Master Smith had to relinquish handles from several knives he attempted to bring into the US for the blade show. The ivory was legal but he could not prove were it came from. I stay away from anything that could possibly cause this problem.
 
From what I was told about tortoise shell, any pre-ban shell or item make out of shell is legal,......with good provenance.
Any new item made from legal shell is not legal to sell.
This differs from ivory, where new items can be legal if the source material is legal ( again, good provenance is necessary). I don't know why they differ, but I suspect that it is far harder to tell old from new shell than the same with ivory. The other reason is that the shell is often used to make "antique items", which might try to evade the law.

A few years back a very famous scrimshander gave me several pieces of tortoise shell. He had bought a big box of tools and materials ( mostly ivory) from the estate of an old engraver. In the box was three flats of tortoise shell. He immediately took them to me and said he couldn't even take the chance they might be found in his home. He had to keep papers with every piece of ivory he worked, and the shell might cast a doubt on his following the laws.
He told me to do what I wanted with them. What I did was ask a friend who had a huge collection of antique pocket knives if he had some with tortoise shell. He did, and said he also had a few with handles that had been eaten up by bugs ( seems some moth and bug larvae like shell). I replaced these handles ,and he uses the other pieces of shell as a display stand for the tortoise shell knives.
 
Tortoise shell works almost like cow horn-but it does not have the grain of horn. It polishes beautifully after being properly sanded. TS stinks when being worked.
 
Another thing to remember is that imitations of tortoise shell has been made in celluloid and acrylic for a century. some are nearly impossible to tell from the real thing.
The most definitive test is to put a red hot needle on an inconspicuous place. This is called "pinning", and can cause damage, so don't do it on anything that you value for its antiquity. The damage may be so minor that it is barely visible, but on celluloid, the piece can burn up before you know it. Always do a pin test in a fire safe place.
Acrylic melts and smells like plastic.
Shell smells like hair, and chars ,but doesn't melt.
Celluloid will either melt, or burst into flames. The smell is very plasticy.
 
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