Really need a firearm for survival?

[pict]

Does anyone make a smooth-bore revolver or pistol for use with shotshell ammo?

I think that with a smooth bore, the 38/357 shotshell ammo would pattern much better for snakes than the rifled barrel.

But maybe that runs afoul of some legal restriction somewheres?

Handguns do have to have rifling or they fall into the category of smoothbore shotguns with barrels under 18 inches long.

Nothing says that rifling has to be effective. Rifling in a handgun tends to spin the shot column and widen the group. I've often wondered about a .45 barrel with light rifling with a very, very slow twist to reduce this effect to near nothing. Legally there but practically ineffective. That way with the swap of a barrel it would turn the 1911 into a short .410 with shotshells. Just an idea, nobody to my knowledge makes such a barrel. Mac

 

[KiljoyKutlery]

I would think that you could survive your entire life in the wild without a gun...but would you want to, is the question. I dont feel like I need a gun to survive..I would want one badly in Griz country..but down in the North East..I dont fear the black bear. I respect them, but the Griz is just way meaner. I feel like a Bow would suit me just fine...I could quietly hunt, and provide food.
Also, if you know your plants..you can do just fine on them for quite some time...RIGHT MARTY! Gene

 

[pict]

Nope, sorry you have to have a handgun, a 1911, stag grips with matching bowie. Anything less is just unamerican. Someone recently posted such a picture and I'm feeling like a po' boy... That rig had class, first rate. On the other hand if you're out west a 4 inch .44 N-frame smith would work as well as long as its stoked with Elmer Kieth original hard cast semi-wadcutters. Some things just shouldn't be messed with. Mac

 

[vwb563]

To survive? Probably not.,,but,,,why would you want to chance it? Its kinda like having car insurance,,you my drive your whole life and never have a wreck but man if you do have one you'll sure appreciate having the insurance!!! Plus its gives you "piece of mind" so to speak so that you can enjoy your surroundings and not have worry so much about animal (or human) attack because you have that covered! Thats MHO anyway!,,,VWB.

 

[tknife]

A nice, flat shooting .22 rifle would be the ultimate survival gun IMO. Overall having a gun to not would be preferable, but not mandatory.

 

[Jeff Clark]

What if your mobility gets reduced? That is usually what makes survival interesting. You might just fall and break your leg or it just might snow. At that point you might be very happy to have a gun. If nothing else it makes a great signal noise generator.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Does anyone make a smooth-bore revolver or pistol for use with shotshell ammo?

I think that with a smooth bore, the 38/357 shotshell ammo would pattern much better for snakes than the rifled barrel.

But maybe that runs afoul of some legal restriction somewheres?

No, but here's where things get a bit counter-intuitive.
Snubnosed revolvers throw much better patterns than long barreled ones. There isn't enough barrel length to spin the shot cup much, so you don't get the "donut" patterns of a longer barrel.

Also, big bore revolvers work better as the outer portion of the shot column is spun, but the inner portion, not so much. So something like a S&W 3" "Trail Boss" in .44 is a good choice. Throws shot shells nicely, and isn't real brutal with moderate velocity magnums like the Hydra-Shok.

 

[Loosearrow]

Survival, if I had a 22 I am confident that I can get anything I need. I grew up in northern New Mexico in a 2 room adobe house out in the middle of nowhere in the Taos region. No electricity, running water, phone etc. My grandfather's go to gun was a 22 that looked like a gallery gun. He shot deer to mice, hogs to hawks. If the gun was shot, something died, no lying here. He picked his shot. Mostly in the head. I just thought everyone shot that way. I learned on the 22 and shot expert in the Marines. I can carry more ammo. The best weapon is in your head. Know your prey, be calm, patient, and learn to shoot slow fast. Didn't mean to ramble. Regards, Loosearrow

 

[zman308]

In snake country I keep the first two cylinders of my Smith and Wesson with shot loads. The next ones with hollow points. Before you do this note the rotation direction of the cylinder and where to put the shot loads to fire first. Please do this on an empty weapon or with a spent cartridge in the cylinder before you put the live rounds in.

 

[Dave_Markowitz]

Does anyone make a smooth-bore revolver or pistol for use with shotshell ammo?

I think that with a smooth bore, the 38/357 shotshell ammo would pattern much better for snakes than the rifled barrel.

But maybe that runs afoul of some legal restriction somewheres?

To be legal if a smoothbore, it would have to be registered under the Federal National Firearms Act of 1934. It would be considered a short barreled shotgun or "any other weapon." Also, not all states permit ownership of NFA weapons.

 

[collecter]

In the lower 48 of the United States, does one really need a firearm for survival?

Do not confuss the issue with self defence, totally different topic. The self defence issue is the only reason I carry a gun, even though the state of Maryland says no. With the question of two legged varmits, I keep a small J frame .38 concealed on me when we go woods walking. But in most of the U.S., is there many places you can't walk out of in three days, if you have a compass and have a rough idea where you are?

The couple years I lived in Colorado and went backpacking, it seemed like we'd run across a ranch road, park service trail, ATV tracks in the most odd places up in the mountains.

I think the formula is something like three days with no water, three weeks with no food.

So, if one is not injured, and has mobility, do you really need a gun or is it just the love of firearms that you want one along?

I think your 38 sp J frame is a perfect kit gun. I don't think you need more than that. If you can bring a short rifle on your ATV I'd suggest a 22 LR but that's in addition to the 38sp you would have on you.

To me it's smarter to carry the lighter weight 38 sp because you would probably have it on you all the time as apposed to a heavier gun that you might decide to not take this time because it's too heavy and because I love my 642 j-frame!:thumbup:

 

[David E]

For food procurement, I don't see a firearm being the most efficiant way to get food.

It depends on the gun chosen and the ability of the shooter.

A .22 NAA sucks for game-getting, as does a 2" snubby .38 or .357. How many can hit a sitting rabbit at 25 yds with a snubby or NAA?

There are plenty of better choices, including a .22 rifle.

Your other points are good, tho.

.

 

[kdstrick]

Does anyone make a smooth-bore revolver or pistol for use with shotshell ammo?

I think that with a smooth bore, the 38/357 shotshell ammo would pattern much better for snakes than the rifled barrel.

But maybe that runs afoul of some legal restriction somewheres?

You can shoot shotshells through rifled barrels... no smooth bore needed. The "pattern" is irrelevant as they don't shoot very far (but far enough for sassy squirrels in a .45ACP).

When the weather is warm, and I am on my own land, I have snake/rat shot as my first round. It has come in handy on a number of occasions. Lots of rattlers down here.

When I'm on public land I carry good defensive ammo... JHP's in +P. They kill snakes too.

 

[ilbruche]

Women are like monkeys they don’t let go of one branch until they have a firm grasp on the next one.

That's the funniest thing I've read all day.

I don't bring a gun...but I'll bring a sling or a slingshot. Not for defense....for fun mostly.

 

[collecter]

It depends on the gun chosen and the ability of the shooter.

A .22 NAA sucks for game-getting, as does a 2" snubby .38 or .357. How many can hit a sitting rabbit at 25 yds with a snubby or NAA?

There are plenty of better choices, including a .22 rifle.

Your other points are good, tho.

.

Wow, the 38 sp snub nose is far superior to the pos naa thing. Imo the naa is next to useless and the snuby is greatness. Show me a rabbit at 15 yards and I'm having it for dinner. I'm not good enough with it past that distsnce but some guys at my club could easily tag a bunny at 25 yards. Next time I go to the range I'm going to bring tennis balls for targets. My brother and I used to shoot them with our sks's and we got real good at pushing them around before they hit the ground. I think that would be fun with a handgun!

 

[straitshot]

To answer the original post, I once went without food for 2.5 days. Not fun. For those of us used to two or three squares, it's a trial. After two days it's difficult to think of much else, it saps your strength, and makes it difficult to concentrate on the rational things. Your stomach is in turmoil and if there is no prospect of getting food in the near future it plays on your mind. If you at least have the means to get some food it helps mentally.

Maybe after a few days it gets better, I don't know. I've seen most of the survival shows on TV and the "experts" haven't yet been able to get much except bugs, worms, and vermin. Many of the places I go don't have fish within miles. Prospects otherwise are not good without a gun: it's a good tool to have when needed as there are few substitutes.

My circumstance was aolne, a few days out, and returning to my camp after it had been raided by a troop of coati mundi bandits. There was literally nothing left worth carrying back.

My favorite is a 4" SP101 in .22lr. In snake season it's a 3" SP101 in .357. Both are sighted in for 50 yds. with identical trigger pulls. My opinion is that it must be a gun you can actually hit with at that distance because the opportunities are going to be rare, not to be wasted, and you probably aren't going to be in your best shooting form under the circumstances anyway.

Besides, I like knives almost as much as sporting guns. Regards, ss.

 

[attej]

I've never thought of needing a firearm for survival. I can't really see a situation, where hunting (with a firearm) would be a good idea in an emergency in this environment... maybe a trap or two, or fishing, but other than that it doesn't seem like a good idea . There are some bears and wolves in Finland, but they haven't killed anyone in more than a hundred years I think. In Alaska, or some grizzly-country, defending against animals might be an issue though.

As for self defense; for me that's not an issue in the woods. I've never heard a hiker being attacked in Finland. Why would a mugger or some low life walk miles and miles in the middle of nowhere... Usually they are lazier than that

Maybe a loud handgun would be a good way to signal out though. A bit heavy for said use.

 

[Fonly]

When I'm on public land I carry good defensive ammo... JHP's in +P. They kill snakes too.

I would hope


I hunt and fish, have a valid firarms license, but to be caught outa season with a gun without a DAMN good reason, your in shit. and too be honest, I know you can conseal a gun, but I find that just diggin your self deeper. in canada your walking around the woods with a concealed handgun, you fall break your leg, and sure kill a few animals and then use the gun to call for rescue, your getting fined up the ass for having a handgun. lol I mean its nuts up here.


I would much rather carry a Airgun, I've taken many animals with the sub 500fps rule, up to rabbits within 35-45 feet. My first rabbit was taken 8 years ago with a pellet gun shooting 495fps.

So, for me out of hunting season, I would rather have a airpistol. if anyone of serious risk is gonna be coming after ya, there gonna have to get withing 30 ft to either take your money or go deliverance on your ass, 8 hunting pellets at 400 fps WILL slow you down, or blind you, which ever one works first.

Then I can take out my mantis and have at them!

 

[David E]

Wow, the 38 sp snub nose is far superior to the pos naa thing. Imo the naa is next to useless and the snuby is greatness. Show me a rabbit at 15 yards and I'm having it for dinner. I'm not good enough with it past that distsnce but some guys at my club could easily tag a bunny at 25 yards. Next time I go to the range I'm going to bring tennis balls for targets. My brother and I used to shoot them with our sks's and we got real good at pushing them around before they hit the ground. I think that would be fun with a handgun!

You, sir, are the exception. It's not impossible to hit a rabbit at 25 yds with a snubby, but few practice to the point of being able to do so.

I agree with your assessment of the typical NAA gun, but some have stated that's what they carry.....for signalling only, I guess!

S&W made a short run of a 2" Model 60 with adjustable sights. I found I shot my Airweight 642 as well, and it was lighter, so I sold it.........dang it.

If you're able to hit with a snubby, then a load to consider is the old 148 grain full wadcutter bullet. It doesn't kick much, is as compact as .38 special ammo gets (bullet is nearly flush with the case mouth) hits with authority on small game and is accurate.

The current crop of S&W 3" Model 60's chambered in .357 (the older ones were .38 only) would be a viable choice if that platform appeals to you.

.

 

[abo4ster]

I have held a gun on a Mt Lion once and a few times on hillbillies. Wasn't as scared dealing with the cat as I was the hillbillies. Apparantly they know that an hour drive into the woods is far enough from the police for them to try their crap In one of Ron Hood's videos they used handguns to scare off an agressive moose. Like mentioned before, better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. For food procurement, I don't see a firearm being the most efficiant way to get food. Plants don't run and traps are far more efficiant plus they "hunt" while you do other stuff For big game you can still make traps/snares and use a field built spear if needed.

good post.

when it comes to calories; traps, snares, and fishing are going to be more efficient than hunting. materials are lite and have dual purpose too. if i carry a handgun in a public forest (which i can legally do now with the new law in georgia), it is for self defense.