Really need a firearm for survival?

[moonwilson]

A S&W J frame revolver in .38 wouldn't be a bad "survival gun". A snubby J frame with lasergrips is every bit as accurate as a full-frame revolver. Mine is capable of astonishing accuracy. Of course, if the batteries die or the laser otherwise goes out, then you're back to the iron sights, such as they are. But you still have a nice and light, handy tool. In a survival situation, a full size .45 would be reassuring, but hauling it around would be a chore.

 

[Fletcher Knives]

This is a difficult answer to explain.

Yes, I carry a firearm with me at all times, especially on hikes or camping, etc. I consider it a very necessary piece of my "survival kit". I do consider it a survival tool.

I found it odd that people are trying to seperate a firearm as a self defense weapon as apposed to a survival tool. Don't get me wrong, I understand why some people do that. I know that many people in the world don't have the same sense of prepairedness aka paranoia as me. In my mind, self defense is a major part of survival. Whetcher it be from people, bears, mountain lion, whatever. My firearm is there to help me survive a situation in which I would have been attacked, in that capacity I consider it a survival tool.

Also, I carry it for other things I could use it for in a survival situation. You could use it to easily get food, signal someone with the noise, and bullets can be taken apart and used for many things on their own.

Now, there are several things i carry on me daily, and on woods trips, that serve more than one purpose and therefor will also do the same job as something else I carry. Most of the jobs that a firearm or bullets could do, I can do with something else, but its nice to have another way of doing a job. For example, using gun podwer for emergency tinder, using the slug of a bullet for a fishing weight, etc.

I could go on forever about this stuff, but alas, I'm trying to eat lunch at work and type this at the same time, so I'll cut it short. All summed up, I do carry a firearm with me for everything, especially woods trips. I do consider it a good piece of survival gear. i do consider it a survival tool. It's true that its a piece of gear that, unless a number of specific situations arise, it will not be used, but then..... isn't that the case with damn near every piece of survival gear we carry?

 

[CSG]

To answer the OP, "need"? probably not. *Desire*, absolutely. I often carry a side arm on my walks. Sometimes it's a Taurus 94 .22 revolver and sometimes it's a 1911. Sometimes, it's a little pocket pistol. I just feel better having one more tool in my possession. Never had the occasion to*need* to use it though.

 

[STR]

I found out at a family reunion that we still have family in West Virginia that live basically surviving on the meat and their own produce off the land, no running water and all they have ever had is one firearm and it was a 12 gauge shotgun which was used for hunting everything from squirrel on up to sticking slugs in it and using it for mule deer. I have even heard they used it once to defend themselves from a black bear and have the rug to prove it. So, when it comes to survival I think a good pump 12 or even a 16 gauge would do all you need. You could probably get by with a 20 gauge and in a pinch a 410 but both those typically cost more or as much as the other bigger gauge ammo so I'd suggest going bigger.

For defense thats when I think more along the lines of a handgun. Get a Glock if semi auto is your fancy and if not get you a good 357 magnum revolver by S&W. Shoot bird shot for survival on small game, or load it up with anything from 38 or 38 plus P or full blown cast bullets for hunting larger.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

See, we also have different views on what each thinks of when you say "survival". One thinks of day-to-day survival in needing to subsistance hunt, another thinks of running across crackheads (ok, probably methheads) in the wood, another is thinking "If you fall off a cliff and break your leg. . ."

The first two are no-brainers, great to have a firearm. But what about the last one?

No the firearm won't fix your leg. You can carry a howler whistle to signal with. But when it's late at night, you're bundled up awaiting rescue, trying to keep the leg alive, and the coyotes come. . .

 

[Fieldtestornothing]

I carry a firearm everywhere on the trail. I had a run in with a pack of wild dogs while trail running almost 7 miles from my vehicle and was forced to shoot one. I can honestly say that if I hadn't been carring I may be dead or permenantly damaged. In my opinion away from civilization is a bad time to be found wanting in your time of need. Currently my set up is super simple, reliable and versitile. Weight is manegable but like anything there are always trade offs.

Day hike: Glock 27 or airweight
Several dayer no focus on sustainment: Glock 27
Far from civilization and shooting to eat: .357 security six Ruger and a single break open 20 guage Cut down to 21". Total weight including 10 shells and 18 .357 is just shy of 7.5 lbs. A lot but in my opinion super versitile. I like the break opens because then can be dissembled and stored in a ruck if I'm in a populated area. If I'm in doing deer than a scout rifle with ten rounds of .308.

If I could have just one gun and I had to carry rounds for a LONG sustainment period than the .22 is king. But I rarely go out for more than 5 days and the break open 20 is one shot per edible food item.

Works for me

 

[David E]

For defense thats when I think more along the lines of a handgun. Get a Glock if semi auto is your fancy and if not get you a good 357 magnum revolver by S&W. Shoot bird shot for survival on small game,

Unless that small game is right next to your foot, those shotshells won't get it in the pot.

Otherwise, good choices.

.

 

[kdstrick]

I would hope


I hunt and fish, have a valid firarms license, but to be caught outa season with a gun without a DAMN good reason, your in shit. and too be honest, I know you can conseal a gun, but I find that just diggin your self deeper. in canada your walking around the woods with a concealed handgun, you fall break your leg, and sure kill a few animals and then use the gun to call for rescue, your getting fined up the ass for having a handgun. lol I mean its nuts up here.


I would much rather carry a Airgun, I've taken many animals with the sub 500fps rule, up to rabbits within 35-45 feet. My first rabbit was taken 8 years ago with a pellet gun shooting 495fps.

So, for me out of hunting season, I would rather have a airpistol. if anyone of serious risk is gonna be coming after ya, there gonna have to get withing 30 ft to either take your money or go deliverance on your ass, 8 hunting pellets at 400 fps WILL slow you down, or blind you, which ever one works first.

Then I can take out my mantis and have at them!

Hey good thoughts. Often, here on bladeforums we come to the conclusion that we all have different needs depending on the territory we travel.

I would suspect that our amigos up north, being much less populated, have less need for personal defense than your southern brethren.

In the states our odds of running across folks (good or bad) are quite a bit larger due to our population, so it is important to prepare for such encounters.

I've never had a problem... but maybe that is because I'm the guy in the campsite with the big knife, axe, and right-hip bulge under my t-shirt.

Silly laws sometimes make me a criminal. I'll happily pay the government fine.... if my infraction leads to my survival. :thumbup:


In short, I prepare for the worst and prey for the best.

Where I live, survival=firearm. It is every bit as important as hydration in my book.

 

[collecter]

S&W made a short run of a 2" Model 60 with adjustable sights. I found I shot my Airweight 642 as well, and it was lighter, so I sold it.........dang it.

Used 642's don't come up for sale very often so I'll bet you made someone very happy by selling it. It's S&W's best selling handgun.

 

[David E]

Used 642's don't come up for sale very often so I'll bet you made someone very happy by selling it. It's S&W's best selling handgun.

Actually, I sold the more collectible of the two, the adjustable sighted Model 60.

I found that, even double action only, I was just as accurate with the 642 as I was with the all steel 60. It's a matter of proper trigger manipulation.

The 442, the blued version of the 642, were hovering around the $350 mark for awhile, but recently went up to $375 or so. I don't favor the "key lock safety" but I'd even buy a 442 with that on it if I didn't have one already.

I maintain that every well-rounded battery has at least one .38 snubby in it.

 

[Fonly]

Hey good thoughts. Often, here on bladeforums we come to the conclusion that we all have different needs depending on the territory we travel.

I would suspect that our amigos up north, being much less populated, have less need for personal defense than your southern brethren.

In the states our odds of running across folks (good or bad) are quite a bit larger due to our population, so it is important to prepare for such encounters.

I've never had a problem... but maybe that is because I'm the guy in the campsite with the big knife, axe, and right-hip bulge under my t-shirt.

Silly laws sometimes make me a criminal. I'll happily pay the government fine.... if my infraction leads to my survival. :thumbup:


In short, I prepare for the worst and prey for the best.

Where I live, survival=firearm. It is every bit as important as hydration in my book.

thats the truth, and just so no one gets me wrong, I love guns, If I was able too I would have a handgun everywhere I went, I hate not being able to carry some pertection not only for me but my loved ones. True enough I have some training, I was a wrestling couch, and was in boxing for a number of years, but lets face it 20 feet away that does nothing to a 9mm.

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . .
I would suspect that our amigos up north, being much less populated, have less need for personal defense than your southern brethren.

That would depend on the bears/moose.

...Where I live, survival=firearm. It is every bit as important as hydration in my book.

So you die in about three days without your piece (or faster if it's hot)?

 

[longbow50]

I agree with those that believe that self defense is a part of survival and a firearm is a survival tool. Are they needed 98% of the time in a short term situation? No! But neither is half the other gear we carry. But, since when do we determine the length and severity of an emergency. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If you got it and don't need it, all is well. If you need it and don't have it, it's a whole different ending to that story.

 

[attej]

I agree with those that believe that self defense is a part of survival and a firearm is a survival tool. Are they needed 98% of the time in a short term situation? No! But neither is half the other gear we carry. But, since when do we determine the length and severity of an emergency. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. If you got it and don't need it, all is well. If you need it and don't have it, it's a whole different ending to that story.

Most people here seem to carry one simply because they want to (that's totally ok of course). But, unless there is a real risk of being attacked by a wild animal of some sort, I can't see how a gun would be usefull? Or do you mean self defense against men? Hunting in an emergency situation would require quite a long emergency to begin with, and the need for that just seems to me... pretty far fetched. I do see your point however; if you want to be prepared for everything, why not take a gun too.

And of course, everybody carries what they want, I have absolutely no problem with that. For example in the US there's propably a whole different attitude towards guns to begin with, so carrying a gun there might be more obvious. To me, it would be just dead weight. We have very few dangerous animals here, and the ones we have fear men more than we fear them (hey, that rhymes... ).

About that "98%" thing... I went through the things I carry in the woods. Most of the stuff I actually do use if not every time, most of the time. The only thing I usually don't (luckily) need, is the first aid stuff and some parts of my PSK (water purification etc). The summer here being what it is, almost every time I'm on a day-long hike, I need my rain gear, extra clothing, knife, lighter etc.

 

[kdstrick]

That would depend on the bears/moose.

So you die in about three days without your piece (or faster if it's hot)?

To your first point I say this: My choice of arms would be very different if I were in bear territory.

Second point: Maybe, maybe not. Either way... I am unwilling to take the chance. Those of you who choose to place your head in the sand and pretend that dangers do not exist are unprepared. There is no 911 in the backwoods. YOU are responsible for your own protection and safety. I really hope that those of you who camp with a spouse and or children are responsible enough to carry the right tool to protect them (you know... they rely on you for that).

I will state once again... entering the woods unarmed is backwoods malpractice!

If you make yourself a lamb... the wolves will come.

The original post here posed the question of whether a firearm is necessary for survival...

My answer is simple: ONLY IF YOU BELIEVE IN PREPARATION...

 

[attej]

I really hope that those of you who camp with a spouse and or children are responsible enough to carry the right tool to protect them (you know... they rely on you for that).

It's still a bit unclear for me... protect against what / who ? I.e. are we talking about bears etc, or men?

Since honestly, if I'd have to be afraid of men out of all the creatures in the woods, I wouldn't go there at all. That would ruin the whole thing for me.

But, that's just me.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Well, like I stated before, in my area, gators and crocodiles and water moccasins would be the top animal threats with wild boar trailing by a distance. However, in all areas of the US, the wild woods seem to attract meth cookers, as there just aren't many people, so they usualyl go unnoticed. Except when the unwary hiker comes along.

Predators have also figured out that hiking trails (like the AT, and PCT) are good places to ambush people. Since firearms are not allowed in many, if not most stretches of the trails. Couple that with the liberal utopian idea of the "wonderous outdoors" and their equal fear of firearms, and you have a lot of docile victims to choose from on such trails.

So, the answer is: Humans or animals -- YES!

 

[borrowed time]

i will not go into the mountains or anywhere out of town without at least 2 guns, a rifle and a pistol of some sort. I was like this even before 911 , but since then i've gotten more concerned about getting caught in a SHTF type event and being without the means of longer range defense & hunting.

For my rifle choice i have either a 10/22 with folding Choate stock and many 25 round mags OR a Springfield M6 22/410 in stainless that i made some modifications to:

i can carry hundreds of .22 rounds and a bunch of 410 shells. the 410 shells are either shotshells or 000 Buck either for hunting or defense. i put aftermarket knife pouches on the sling that carries Silva compass/matchbox, SAK, Mini-mag AAA flashlight, and extra 410 shells. I got the idea from Vshrake's (Jimbo) websight for these and other mods i made for it.

The pistol i usually carry is a Ruger 22/45 P4, 4" BBL that i can shoot better than most other guns ive tried.

with this kit i also carry either a Gerber LMF II or their Prodigy.

-- Eric

 

[attej]

Well, like I stated before, in my area, gators and crocodiles and water moccasins would be the top animal threats with wild boar trailing by a distance.

I've heard that wild boars can be extremely aggressive... If we had plenty of them here, I'd give some serious though about carrying a firearm. But luckily Finland is just a little too north for those... In Estonia there are some. We don't have nothing but wolves, bears and lynxes. Well, actually, statistically the most dangerous animal here is the moose. A moose in heat during spring time can be plain crazy!

However, in all areas of the US, the wild woods seem to attract meth cookers, as there just aren't many people, so they usualyl go unnoticed. Except when the unwary hiker comes along.

Oh man, that sucks. I myself moved out of the city just to get away from all the low lifes... to find a meth lab from the place I go to relax and to find some kinda peace would suck big time. Fortunately the Finnish junkies are too lazy, or maybe it's the environment... anyway, the only people I've met in the woods here are other hikers, hunters etc.

 

[ROCK6]

In the lower 48 of the United States, does one really need a firearm for survival?

I don't think it's a absolute necessity for everyone, but I do think it's prudent insurance whether it's needed or not. Using your firearm to obtain food in a "survival" situation is probably a low probability unless you're way out in the "back 40". For me, it is self defense first and signaling second; a whistle works great, but 3 shots from a pistol carries well also...just another tool in the kit bag. My last trip, I carried a Charter .44 SPL Bulldog...great little packing pistol, and the first round was loaded with snake-shot...more to dispatch any pesky rattlers we couldn't avoid. Again, not a necessity to survive in the majority of the lower 48, but it gives a big morale boost and level of comfort for me and my family; that's reason enough for me.

ROCK6