Reason for discontinuing knives?

pbcg

pbcg

Joined
Oct 20, 2009
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I'm guessing the obvious reason is that at some point sales begin to fall off and a decision is made to discontinue the line.

However, most if not all my favorite Benchmade knives have been discontinued. This is obviously very frustrating and somewhat disappointing. Sure, from time to time LE are released but they are always snatched up by a lucky few or "professional" flippers and then the only way to get one is on the secondary market at ridiculously inflated / marked up prices.

The AFCK's, TSEK's, Skirmish, Rukus and I could name several others were always big hits and I never got the impression that sales were declining? In fact it was quite a surprise in most cases. I missed getting a Rukus initially by only a few months having no idea it wouldn't be available the following year. I had actually been saving for it.

When Benchmade decides to discontinue a knife, what are the primary considerations involved and is there a chance that one day some of these favorites will ever be reintroduced?. Perhaps updated and part of a regular run and not just the occasional LE that most won't be able to obtain. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing the LE AFCK's that come out with the latest steels and such but I'd also like to see a regular one in D2 or 154CM that would be priced more in line with other knives in those classes.

Thanks.
 
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On the disco'ed models; sales slow when the market's flooded, yet reliable favorites remain in the catalog like the 940, 710 and 530 that just keep ticking along. I think trends come into play with blade shape and handle designs - note how many makers use the harpoon shaped blade today, like on the Benchmade Onslaught and others...Spartan blades, etc., which are all over the pages of Blade Magazine. I will say one thing; if you love a knife keep the dang thing in good shape and even better keep one mint and buy another for EDC use. Some of the prices for the 10+ year old classics on the secondary market are nuts...you guys can easily come up with examples of this. (635, 910, 970/975, maybe the 615 ring a bell?) ;)
 
Something that I realize is that although a particular model, say the Rukus for example may be very popular among us "Knifenuts" it may not be as popular or desired by the general knife buying community. I'm guessing we make up the smaller share of the market. I think I forget that sometimes.

I'd still like to hear though, if there is any 'hope" for a return of some of these great designs? Never know, if Benchmade is listening maybe there's a chance?...
 
I wonder if licensing has something to do with it. I'm thinking they have contacts with the designers, and the designers get paid a royalty. Maybe when the contract expires some choose not to re-up.
 
bucktwofive said:
I wonder if licensing has something to do with it. I'm thinking they have contacts with the designers, and the designers get paid a royalty. Maybe when the contract expires some choose not to re-up.
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That's a good thought, but 'Pbcg' makes a good point that I agree with. The AFCK and TSEK, for example, were very popular among military and the growing 'Tactical' bunch. However, the knives were very poor sellers when the money to be made was based on large number of sales. The 615/610 was a good example of designers moving on; Neil Blackwood's contract with Benchmade ended, but minus the logo on the right side of the blade, the Rukus models remained in the lineup for a few years longer. Those two, (615/610) are among those 'must have's...' that are now very hard to find and even then sell for way more then they originally went for. But now there's a new twist, the numbered LE lineup in the last few years has brought back the AFCK, TSEK and Ares, among many offerings...and have been big hits...but I wonder if they are going over due to increased regular production?

In any case, I feel lucky to own, or have owned many of these older hard to find knives that are prizes...and better yet, the company that made them still is willing to service them even after all of these years...which is both good customer service and Karma...!
 
jkarp_53,

You bring up a good point that just made me think of something. The AFCK & TSEK's were very popular with military / LE types. In fact I was in the militay when I was intoduced to the AFCK and later the Stryker.

I wonder how much blade length has to do with it? The Standard AFCK, TSEK, Skirmish, and Rukus are all 4"- 4"+ blades. Due mainly (I believe) to local laws and ordinances the most popular blade lengths tend to be sub 3.5" blades. That's what most people seem buy or prefer anyway.

Made me think for BM or any other manufacturer, once they introduce a 4" or longer blade maybe they just lost half their market as most won't be purchasing them for that reason alone? Thus decreasing the demand even further?

Like I said just guessing here but maybe that has something to do with it also?

I also agree that it does feel special to own or have owned a lot of these great discontinued knives. It took years but I was finally able to get a Rukus and along with my original AFCK (still have it after all these years) they are my most cherished knives.
 
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pbcg said:
jkarp_53,

You bring up a good point that just made me think of something. The AFCK & TSEK's were very popular with military / LE types. In fact I was in the militay when I was intoduced to the AFCK and later the Stryker.

I wonder how much blade length has to do with it? The Standard AFCK, TSEK, Skirmish, and Rukus are all 4"- 4"+ blades. Due mainly (I believe) to local laws and ordinances the most popular blade lengths tend to be sub 3.5" blades. That's what most people seem buy or prefer anyway.

Made me think for BM or any other manufacturer, once they introduce a 4" or longer blade maybe they just lost half their market as most won't be purchasing them for that reason alone? Thus decreasing the demand even further?

Like I said just guessing here but maybe that has something to do with it also?

I also agree that it does feel special to own or have owned a lot of these great discontinued knives. It took years but I was finally able to get a Rukus and along with my original AFCK (still have it after all these years) they are my most cherished knives.
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If that's the case, better to buy two Contegos.

Btw, Les addresses the disco of the 42(?) in a YouTube video. Check it out. While you're at it check out all of their new vids. :thumbup:
 
Thanks for the info. I checked out the video. I really wish he would have addressed the AFCK, and a couple of others. There's obviously enough of a market left for the occasional LE run. As with some of the other discontinued models too maybe?

It does say their listening so maybe there is hope...
 
Sorry to bump an older thread but I have something relevant to add! Coincidentally I just spoke to Benchmade customer service about my interest in a couple discontinued models (Ares, AFCK specifically) and he told me this: "Often the choice to discontinue a product has as much to do with licensing a design as it does with the success of that model." To me that sounds like often times it costs too much just to license it from the designer to make it? Add that to the cost of the materials and manufacturing I guess it could be hard to make certain knives for very long periods of time as that licensing fee racks up.
 
oharal said:
Sorry to bump an older thread but I have something relevant to add! Coincidentally I just spoke to Benchmade customer service about my interest in a couple discontinued models (Ares, AFCK specifically) and he told me this: "Often the choice to discontinue a product has as much to do with licensing a design as it does with the success of that model." To me that sounds like often times it costs too much just to license it from the designer to make it? Add that to the cost of the materials and manufacturing I guess it could be hard to make certain knives for very long periods of time as that licensing fee racks up.
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Thank you for contributing. Interesting prospective. I honestly have no idea or considered what or how much a "Licensing Fee" could or would cost and how that might affect the long term profitability of a given design. It does on it's face sound plausible, or that in some cases it could be a factor.

Interesting indeed...
 
I can think of examples like the 630/635, that were made for a long while after Neil Blackwood moved away from Benchmade, where his logo was removed from the right side of the blade. It continued to sell until sales slowed and it was disco'ed. I don't know this for sure, but have always wondered if there's a timing to the end of a production model.
 
I always thought it was just a business practice by BM to discontinue knives to bring in newer models.

I figured they wanted to be known as knife manufacturers who churned out multitudes of different designs.

This makes past knives that much more valuable (in a sentimental way) to own.

I wanted the original 470 and was truly shocked it was discontinued for 2013, replaced by the 470-1 which I'm not too crazy about.
 
About the licensing issue. Allen Elishewitz designed the Ares and the Nimravus. I am quite sure that I read somewhere that the parting of Elishewitz and BM was not entirely friendly. The results however are interesting, the Ares was discontinued and the Nimravus continues to this day but without Elishewitz's logo.

However, recently a big dealer commissioned a limited run of the Ares. Do not have one, therefore do not know if Elishewitz's logo appears like on the original Ares.

Do the designers some times license their design and some times sell the design outright? Elishewitz does/did offer a custom Ares but I do not remember ever seeing a custom Nimravus.
 
It's not my place here to answer questions, even if knew the answers. I would just like to say its' really nice to see that my designs where a hit and still appreciated after a few years. Thanks for the mentions guys, it means a lot.
 
Neil, your designs freakin' rock, man! I had the pleasure of meeting you at one of the BM lunches at Blade in the early 00's. One of the BM crew had a polymer mockup (almost the equivalent of today's 3D-printed) Ruckus, long before it was released that I got to check out. IMHO, the mini Skirmish is still the best frame lock BM has ever produced. Best to you and yours, Sir.

Prof.
 
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