Reate horizon d any good?

Mike45ACP said:
I don't know that that's completely true. I'm not sure how it works. The designer and the maker both have to make money. Are you saying the designer has complete control over the price? I would think both party's have to come to some kind of agreement. Meaning both party's have a say?

Mike
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I cant say for sure but the way i thought it worked was reate sets what they need to get from the maker to commission the run and then its up to the maker to set the price to the end user. These arent knives where reate asks if they cn make a design and give them a cut. These are actually commissioned by the makers to be sold under their own brand name.
 
The price for the Kwaiken actually seems pretty good for what you're getting, IMO. Ceramic IKBS and detent, fully contoured and skeletonized titanium handles, sculpted ti clip with the ceramic ball; a lot of really cool features. The Begg custom Kwaikens start around 5000$, so the price has dropped considerably by moving things to China ;) ...that's not a fair comparison, of course. The custom version is a very different thing, one of the most stunning, thoroughly impressive knives you'll ever see (B. Dunn's custom version has received quite a bit of Youtube attention, in both his reviews and W&S.)

A more fair comparison would be the Bodega mid-techs -- Jim Skelton did a review a couple days ago, and equates it with his original red G-10 Bodega, a mid-tech that is better than most (or at least many) customs. But that's a completely subjective assessment, and this is based on second-hand knowledge. In terms of looks and materials, it reminds me a lot of Brian Nadeau's Typhoon -- which I think you'd call a mid-tech -- and it goes for 850-1400$.
 
Mike45ACP said:
I don't know that that's completely true. I'm not sure how it works. The designer and the maker both have to make money. Are you saying the designer has complete control over the price? I would think both party's have to come to some kind of agreement. Meaning both party's have a say?

Mike
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I think the designer gives Reate the design along with requested materials, level of milling and quantity desired. Usually, the quantity is 100-200. Reate then gives the designer a price quote. Designer then adds the markup.

I'm guessing that if Reate itself were selling the Liong Mah folders they would sell for $225-$250.
 
Thanks, that makes sense. Also doesn't seem like that bad of a deal to me. Two people have to make money. You have a knife designed by a big name that you like (hopefully) and most of those knives are in the 350 range as opposed to the Horizon D made and designed by Reate for 400+.

Mike

PURPLEDC
"I cant say for sure but the way i thought it worked was reate sets what they need to get from the maker to commission the run and then its up to the maker to set the price to the end user. These arent knives where reate asks if they cn make a design and give them a cut. These are actually commissioned by the makers to be sold under their own brand name."



RamZar said:
I think the designer gives Reate the design along with requested materials, level of milling and quantity desired. Usually, the quantity is 100-200. Reate then gives the designer a price quote. Designer then adds the markup.

I'm guessing that if Reate itself were selling the Liong Mah folders they would sell for $225-$250.
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Mike45ACP said:
Thanks, that makes sense. Also doesn't seem like that bad of a deal to me. Two people have to make money. You have a knife designed by a big name that you like (hopefully) and most of those knives are in the 350 range as opposed to the Horizon D made and designed by Reate for 400+.

Mike
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Remember the Liong Mah ones don't have any 3D milling and use S35VN for $350. On the other hand, Horizon-D has 3D TI or CF, M390 and anodized hardware.
 
I still don't get how people don't understand that some things become more expensive as they get more popular.

I doubt Eric Clapton has always charged $200 MINIMUM for tickets to his concerts... But he can charge that now. So he does. Simple.
And like someone who got to see a really cool, really good band at a small, intimate venue before they exploded in popularity, I think those of us who picked up Reates in 2013 or 2014 should just be thankful we got in on the action before the big popularity explosion.
 
True, guess in that case a person has to decide what's more important to them the design or the materials, but then again ZT does the Rexford 808 and the Sinkevich 450 both for around the 200 dollar mark. That's makes Reate seem expensive but I'm there's many things I'm not thinking of. Reate is a small company, ZT is large, economy of scale and all that.

Mike

RamZar said:
Remember the Liong Mah ones don't have any 3D milling and use S35VN for $350. On the other hand, Horizon-D has 3D TI or CF, M390 and anodized hardware.
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Rasco I'm not so sure that scenario holds up so well with products as it does with performers. I can think of many products that go down in price the more popular they get....like the one I'm typing on now. That said I'm a big Reate fan and think most of there knives are priced fairly. I've got some issue with the Horizon D and some of the collaborations but the market will decide who's right on that score.

Mike

Rasco said:
I still don't get how people don't understand that some things become more expensive as they get more popular.

I doubt Eric Clapton has always charged $200 MINIMUM for tickets to his concerts... But he can charge that now. So he does. Simple.
And like someone who got to see a really cool, really good band at a small, intimate venue before they exploded in popularity, I think those of us who picked up Reates in 2013 or 2014 should just be thankful we got in on the action before the big popularity explosion.
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Rasco said:
I still don't get how people don't understand that some things become more expensive as they get more popular.

I doubt Eric Clapton has always charged $200 MINIMUM for tickets to his concerts... But he can charge that now. So he does. Simple.
And like someone who got to see a really cool, really good band at a small, intimate venue before they exploded in popularity, I think those of us who picked up Reates in 2013 or 2014 should just be thankful we got in on the action before the big popularity explosion.
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Im not saying reate knives are not worth the money for what you get. But they need to be careful. Increasing prices too fast alienates those who originally sought them out for their value and those who have no previous experience with them may become hesitant to even try them. Ive said it before and I ll say it again, dont forget the people who made you.
 
As an aside I have only two Reate's, a Horizon *C and a District 9 I just bought from Poolhustler6. Love the Horizon C but I never understood the D9 until I unpackaged it and held it in my hands. WOW what a beast of a knife! I love that thing. It's just plain beefy but in a good classy way. The blade fires out like one of my well tuned 45's, and I love that subtle purple anno job. It's unique and really hides small scratches. If you've been on the fence about it I encourage you to buy it. Then again if your favorite knife is a landslide it may not be for you :-)

Mike
 
Mike45ACP said:
True, guess in that case a person has to decide what's more important to them the design or the materials, but then again ZT does the Rexford 808 and the Sinkevich 450 both for around the 200 dollar mark. That's makes Reate seem expensive but I'm there's many things I'm not thinking of. Reate is a small company, ZT is large, economy of scale and all that.

Mike
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The regular production ZTs (collaborations or not) are produced in the thousands plus ZT/KAI is an industrial-scale major manufacturer.

The regular Reate from early 2014 like Horizon-B, District-9 and Hills compete very favorably with ZT in both quality and price.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Im not saying reate knives are not worth the money for what you get. But they need to be careful. Increasing prices too fast alienates those who originally sought them out for their value and those who have no previous experience with them may become hesitant to even try them. Ive said it before and I ll say it again, dont forget the people who made you.
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I disagree. As their reputation grows, they no longer need the customers who can afford knives in the $200-$300 range.
Now that they are partnered with a huge name like Todd Begg, that helps to reduce some of the skepticism from people who can afford knives in the $400-500 range.

Have you ever heard a negative Reate knife review? I haven't.
So people who were on the fence should be pretty convinced by now. So I disagree that those with no previous experience will continue being cautious.
But I do agree that raising prices alienates some customers, I just don't think they care. They'd gladly trade 100 "Level 1" customers for 100 "Level 2" customers, if you know what I'm sayin.
 
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I compare the Reate Horizon D's to the Zero Tolerance/Rick Hinderer 0392's. Both are similar in quality of materials and construction. Both are produced in fairly small numbers (I'm thinking around 500 pieces?). Both have a sort of upscale, cool factor from being a special design that's a step above the regular fare...and they both hit the market at right around $400. And, therein lies the problem. In ZT I have local service, support and warranty and none of that (at this time) exists for Reate. It's because of this that Reate should discount their offerings against equal competition.

But then again, I just bought Rasco's Reate Valkyrie. I have no spine, lol. I love that Valkyrie, just a sick design and wicked look.
 
Honestly, I don't factor warranty into my knife buying decisions very much at all. I'll bet you you never have an issue with that Valkyrie :)

You bring up ZT's warranty, but when my 0452CF was stiff to deploy out of the box, I considered sending it in, but instead, I took the knife apart, filed down the lip on the detent hole and bent the lockbar back a bit. It's now one of my most awesomest flippers. So I guess at this point, I'm more likely to fix a knife myself, if it's a problem I can fix.

See if you can find any topics of people complaining about their various Reate models showing up from the factory with flaws that needed to be fixed at the factory.
I don't think I've seen any, so I'm sure there are very few
 
Rasco said:
I disagree. As their reputation grows, they no longer need the customers who can afford knives in the $200-$300 range.
Now that they are partnered with a huge name like Todd Begg, that helps to reduce some of the skepticism from people who can afford knives in the $400-500 range.

Have you ever heard a negative Reate knife review? I haven't.
So people who were on the fence should be pretty convinced by now. So I disagree that those with no previous experience will continue being cautious.
But I do agree that raising prices alienates some customers, I just don't think they care. They'd gladly trade 100 "Level 1" customers for 100 "Level 2" customers, if you know what I'm sayin.
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You are talking about what people can afford. Im talking about what people are willing to spend. Two different things IMHO. People who have experience with reate are more comfortable. And IMHO having Todd Begg attached to the project doesnt instill confidence for me. Todds knives are notoriously expensive especially their field grade models. And we are talking about a country of origin that is highly stigmatized. And I think it will be a long while if ever we see the day that those who have been screaming they will never buy a chinese knife in fact do so. Either way we can agree to disagree. I remember when everyone said I was crazy when i said china was gonna be a force to be reckoned with in the first place. And reate was one of the brands I mentioned when i said it. As for negative reviews of reate? I am not going to go down that path. If I stated why I feel that is It would make me even less popular than I am and I dont need any more enemies. We will just have to wait it out and see.

Rasco said:
See if you can find any topics of people complaining about their various Reate models showing up from the factory with flaws that needed to be fixed at the factory.
I don't think I've seen any, so I'm sure there are very few
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Lets say you strip your pivot, or a handle screw and you need to get it from reate. The parts may not cost you a dime. But I was quoted $35 to ship me a pivot. So even if you dont have to send the knife back it may still cost you. And while you may not need or want a warranty its up there on some peoples priority list. I have seen reates with issues before. Nothing major but I havent found a single knife company that makes perfection. IMHO anyone claiming a production company makes perfect products either lacks proper knowledge to evaluate such an item or they simply like to believe something is better than it is. Kinda like how everyone is so quick to call production knives "mid techs" or "Mid tech level".
 
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Not claiming they're perfection, just trying to provide a realistic context for valuation on the warranty.

I don't think the warranty concerns are a valid reason to pass on a Reate knife. You may feel otherwise. That's fine. I'm just saying I don't think the warranty is much of an issue on a knife that, from what I've seen, has very high quality levels.
But to compare apples to apples, shoot ZT an email and ask them how much they want to ship you a pivot for a 0452CF.
 
Well then, I guess I'd give the advantage to ZT on that one :P
I suppose you are taking more of a gamble with Reate Vs ZT but I don't hear many complaints about the Reates, so take that for what it's worth
 
Reate are as well-made as any knives I've had. I remember at the beginning I had some loose scale screws but none since. Perhaps they're using loctite and/or better screws. Reate knives work great from day one without any adjustments or break-in.
 
I guess what I'm ultimately driving at is, if you have enough faith in a brand like ZT to spend $250ish on one of their knives, consider placing that same amount of faith in Reate Knives.
It's almost like some people are looking for *any* halfway rational justification for shunning Reate and the warranty thing is the best they can come up with.
I admit, it's a "valid concern" but it should only weigh about 5 - 10% of your decision, not 50-100%.

I happen to think the odds of you actually needing to utilize Reate's warranty are lower than they are with a ZT (and that's saying something about quality levels, cuz ZTs are high quality knives) but that's totally just one man's opinion.
 
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