rebevelling a new small sebenza with the sharpmaker

[zyhano]

Hey all,

Last week I received a new small limited edition 2008 sebenza with a satinwood inlay after ordering it 4 weeks ago from one of the renowned CR dealers in the US. Took a long time, with no communication about the shipping status from the dealer (even after asking a couple of times).

The blade is a beautiful addition to my growing CR collection. Perfect centering of the blade, beautiful color of the inlay, a joy to behold. Wow, I even made myself an unboxing video to be able to have another look at it later and remember the joy of seeing it the first time.

after a happy couple of minutes I found out that it was actually pretty dull, not even cutting paper, let alone shaving hair, and that the grinding was way (yes wayyyy) off.

I was totally not expecting this, especially after my earlier experiences with CR knives.

After checking out the edges under my loupe and doing some careful experiments with the sharpmaker and a magic marker, I found out that one side of the edge was ground at about 20 degrees (even takeaway of the marker ink along the straight portion of the blade) and at a steeper angle on the tip, not sure exactly how much. The other side of the edge was a little over 15. The edge did not look perfectly centered to me.
Yes, that's a 5 degree difference

Now, before I will be misinterpreted: I love CRK and own a couple and use them a lot. I know the quality is excellent and they have very good QC, at least, that is my experience so far.

But this knife's edge looked like it was ground by the local town drunk ...

Also, I saw that the lanyard was fixed through the hole, while in my other LE small seb (the only other small one I own) there is a metal thinggie (just like in the large sebs), a spacer with a hole in it that is made for the lanyard to go through.

Now, I'm not sure if that's normal, or maybe the LE 2008 had this, but I was now on the point of wondering if 'something' happened to it. Was this a new knife? Where was the spacer with the hole for the lanyard?

I couldn't see any use marks anywhere so I let that thought slide even though I'm still unsure of this...

After having thought about it for a while, I decided to do a rebevel on the knife making it 15 degrees per side.

I had just succesfully reprofiled my emerson horseman the day before on my japanese waterstones (took away the chisel grind and I like it better btw), but did not want to use my waterstones on the new seb as I'm not good enough to really get a precision angle on the knife and I also didn't want to make a slip up an scratch the whole blade.

So I went to the only other sharpening system I own: the spyderco sharpmaker.
I love it, use it for touchups and have all the stones for it (diamond, coarse, fine, ultra fine). I did a rebevel on a dull new benchmade griptilian before (154CM steel, the first dull factory edge I got) and it took me some time but pulled it of within a reasonable time, I guess about an hour or so. It's a long process and I know there are faster ways, but don't own an edgepro (yet?). Also the sandpaper trick on the rods of the sharpmaker are a bit risky if you don't want to damage the blade finish.

So after thinking it through another time, I put the steel to the diamond rods at 30 degrees (15 per side) and started at it. I've doing it for about two hours now and am almost there. the middle of the curved portion to the tip does not yet see the edge coming together, but I think it needs another half hour and I'm done with the diamond rods. The tip is proving to difficult so far. Then I will start with the next stones, which will of course need much less time to do.

I feel a little p1ssed 0ff about it... It's a very expensive knife, a limited edition and I had to rebevel it because the sharpening was bad...
Not only that, but I guess it's incomplete (during this post I double checked my other small sebenza for the lanyard spacer). I like to sharpen and I like playing with my knives and making them my own, but I would at least have liked to play around a little bit with a normally functioning knife before taking this drastic step. A lot of the pleasure is spoiled right now.

Did anyone of you have a similar experience?
What are your thoughts on this?
How about the 30 degree angle?
what about the lanyard spacer, should it be on there?
Is there any consolation for me?

 

[Sigguy]

You have every right to be upset about it.

When you pay that kind of money for a knife you shouldn't have to sharpen it when you get it. Not cutting paper is pretty bad.

I waited two months to get a sebenza I ordered from my local dealer. After numerous calls to my dealer then finally C.R. I canceled my order. My dealer nor C.R. could tell me anything about the status.

 

[dinozzo]

Yep...my first seb wasnt too hair popping when i got it (used) it took away from the enjoyment a little...but your story, pretty much ruins the whole thing hahah you should be pretty upset...but at least your fixing it:thumbup:

 

[tomsch]

My Umnumzaan was not very sharp when I bought it either but the grinds were fine. I was able to get it hair popping sharp using just the fine stones on my Sharpmaker along with some light stropping. Sorry to hear that the grind is so off on your Sebenza!

 

[marthinus]

I would say reprofile the edge if it is a user. Other wise send it back to CRK for them to have a look.

As for the metal thingy. It was only introduced with the Sebenza 21 so the LE you bought might be before those were introduced. My memory is foggy now on when it was the Sebs 21st birthday....

 

[SteelSnob]

accidental post sorry.

Congrats on the Seb!

 

[SteelSnob]

Whoops I meant to start a new thread. I'm on my iPhone at a shop. I'll fix it in a minute.

 

[DaveH]

With the sole exception of an Insingo model I picked up, new sebenzas are DULL. I've complained about it for years. Doesn't seem to do much good.

Here's a couple of threads:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689387

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=458965

I've been tempted to send a spyderco whatever along with a seb back to CRK and ask them to make the seb as sharp as the spyderco.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

With the sole exception of an Insingo model I picked up, new sebenzas are DULL. I've complained about it for years. Doesn't seem to do much good.

Here's a couple of threads:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689387

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=458965

I've been tempted to send a spyderco whatever along with a seb back to CRK and ask them to make the seb as sharp as the spyderco.

im convinced no one can get knives as sharp as spyderco. ive only had one or two that couldn't pop hairs.

ive owned many sebenzas over the years, and the level of sharpness has varied. most have been purchased nib.

they have tended to not be shaving sharp, which is sort of my standard. every one ive owned has been taken to the sharpmaker pretty much right out of the box.

im not great at sharpening, and have never had a knife that will "tree top" hairs, but they should all shave and slice paper easily.

 

[molly's survival]

before this turns into a bashing thread have you contacted CRK?... as for the tie bar those started showing up in '09 so it would not have come on your knife. also keep in mind that your sharpener is a sharpmaker not a profilemaker and will not work effectively for that

 

[SteelSnob]

I'm sorry to hear that. That's dissapointing for sure.

I don't know what your shipping situation is or how much it would cost you but CRK will resharpen and rebevel it for you to a thinner angle if you can send it in. My next reccomendation would be get a DMT aligner kit because it's easy, it will keep the angle for you, has all the stones needed for reprofiling and it will do it much quicker than sharpmaker.

A 30 inclusive should be fine.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

before this turns into a bashing thread have you contacted CRK?... as for the tie bar those started showing up in '09 so it would not have come on your knife. also keep in mind that your sharpener is a sharpmaker not a profilemaker and will not work effectively for that

with the diamond rods it will reprofile relatively easily.

 

[nyefmaker]

Hey all,

Last week I received a new small limited edition 2008 sebenza with a satinwood inlay after ordering it 4 weeks ago from one of the renowned CR dealers in the US. Took a long time, with no communication about the shipping status from the dealer (even after asking a couple of times).

The blade is a beautiful addition to my growing CR collection. Perfect centering of the blade, beautiful color of the inlay, a joy to behold. Wow, I even made myself an unboxing video to be able to have another look at it later and remember the joy of seeing it the first time.

after a happy couple of minutes I found out that it was actually pretty dull, not even cutting paper, let alone shaving hair, and that the grinding was way (yes wayyyy) off.

I was totally not expecting this, especially after my earlier experiences with CR knives.

After checking out the edges under my loupe and doing some careful experiments with the sharpmaker and a magic marker, I found out that one side of the edge was ground at about 20 degrees (even takeaway of the marker ink along the straight portion of the blade) and at a steeper angle on the tip, not sure exactly how much. The other side of the edge was a little over 15. The edge did not look perfectly centered to me.
Yes, that's a 5 degree difference

Now, before I will be misinterpreted: I love CRK and own a couple and use them a lot. I know the quality is excellent and they have very good QC, at least, that is my experience so far.

But this knife's edge looked like it was ground by the local town drunk ...

Also, I saw that the lanyard was fixed through the hole, while in my other LE small seb (the only other small one I own) there is a metal thinggie (just like in the large sebs), a spacer with a hole in it that is made for the lanyard to go through.

Now, I'm not sure if that's normal, or maybe the LE 2008 had this, but I was now on the point of wondering if 'something' happened to it. Was this a new knife? Where was the spacer with the hole for the lanyard?

I couldn't see any use marks anywhere so I let that thought slide even though I'm still unsure of this...

After having thought about it for a while, I decided to do a rebevel on the knife making it 15 degrees per side.

I had just succesfully reprofiled my emerson horseman the day before on my japanese waterstones (took away the chisel grind and I like it better btw), but did not want to use my waterstones on the new seb as I'm not good enough to really get a precision angle on the knife and I also didn't want to make a slip up an scratch the whole blade.

So I went to the only other sharpening system I own: the spyderco sharpmaker.
I love it, use it for touchups and have all the stones for it (diamond, coarse, fine, ultra fine). I did a rebevel on a dull new benchmade griptilian before (154CM steel, the first dull factory edge I got) and it took me some time but pulled it of within a reasonable time, I guess about an hour or so. It's a long process and I know there are faster ways, but don't own an edgepro (yet?). Also the sandpaper trick on the rods of the sharpmaker are a bit risky if you don't want to damage the blade finish.

So after thinking it through another time, I put the steel to the diamond rods at 30 degrees (15 per side) and started at it. I've doing it for about two hours now and am almost there. the middle of the curved portion to the tip does not yet see the edge coming together, but I think it needs another half hour and I'm done with the diamond rods. The tip is proving to difficult so far. Then I will start with the next stones, which will of course need much less time to do.

I feel a little p1ssed 0ff about it... It's a very expensive knife, a limited edition and I had to rebevel it because the sharpening was bad...
Not only that, but I guess it's incomplete (during this post I double checked my other small sebenza for the lanyard spacer). I like to sharpen and I like playing with my knives and making them my own, but I would at least have liked to play around a little bit with a normally functioning knife before taking this drastic step. A lot of the pleasure is spoiled right now.

Did anyone of you have a similar experience?
What are your thoughts on this?
How about the 30 degree angle?
what about the lanyard spacer, should it be on there?
Is there any consolation for me?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience my friend. Its always a bummer to get excited about something ( opening that new CRK ) only to be let down. What you are experiencing is nothing new. I have had knives from CRK, Strider, Case, Buck, Gerber, ZT, Kershaw, etc. that have had perfect blade grind angle on one side, and a different angle on the other. Its never alot, 20 degrees on one side and say 23 degrees on the other. Always enough to drive you crazy though. I too use the sharpie trick and also sharpen all of my knives on a sharpmaker. I always take it as the individual is say righ handed and can grind the cutting edge easily on the right side for example, but when they grind the left side, its backwards and not as refined. Thats my thoughts anyways. Perhaps somone like Matthew Otto can explain it better and how this happens. It happens with ALL companies. I have never had a CRK with a wavy grind though. I wanna get the diamond rods for the sharpmaker someday as reprofiling would be easier. I currently use the brown rods to reprofile. My strider SMF took about 2 hours to reprofile. It was tedious, but I got it done.

I would have called CRK, especially since its a Limited Edition, you could even have sent pics and they would have told you to send it in and they would take care of it.

I have never gotten a "dull" CRK that was new. All were very sharp, some were sharper than othes I am sure, but nothing to make me think it was "dull".

As for your lanyard pin, they started putting them in the sebbies last year. I believe it started with the Umnumzaan and carried over to the sebbie as people liked them. My zaan has one, but none of my sebies do as all mine are older than last year. The ti-pin looks nice, but it did not matter to me if I had one or not. I always considered the lanyard as more of an emergency tool where if you need a small rope, you could just untie it from the knife. With the pin, it would come out and more often than not would become lost. I have read where CRK re-designed the ti-pin to stay in when the lanyard is removed, so they themselves solved the issue. Leave it to Chris......lol.

 

[OldDude1]

A quick read of post numbers 13 through 21, of the below listed thread, may help address your concerns with reprofiling the Sebenza tip. OldDude1

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167841

 

[DallasSTB]

Before the pigpile gets any deeper, please contact CR directly about fixing your knife. They don't have a reputation for exemplary service without reason. I'm confident that they WILL fix the knife. From time to time errors are made, especially with low production models. I've never handled a NEW Seb whose blade wasn't sharp, centered, and ground symmetrically - but that is not saying they don't exist.

I will say that my 07 Classic Ironwood Seb came back from the shop (after double luggin') noticeably sharper than when it was new. BUT the blade grind was a little off on the new blade. See below.

Original blade

New blade - notice the end of the grind

I can only attribute this to errors that are made when certain things are done by hand. Maybe there has been some turnover in the CR shop? I'm still a happy camper with their knives.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

no one is dogpiling, settle down.

nib sebenza sharpness has come up many times, but i dont think anyone doubts crk quality or doesn't love their sebs.

 

[zyhano]

Here I go, I just discovered multi quote on this post

You have every right to be upset about it.
I canceled my order. My dealer nor C.R. could tell me anything about the status.

that sucks, "where is my stuff" is a need to know when ordering knives!

Yep...my first seb wasnt too hair popping when i got it (used) it took away from the enjoyment a little...but your story, pretty much ruins the whole thing hahah you should be pretty upset...but at least your fixing it

Yup, I won't go sour over it I'm glad you can laugh about it, the forum should be entertainment too

My Umnumzaan was not very sharp when I bought it either but the grinds were fine. I was able to get it hair popping sharp using just the fine stones on my Sharpmaker along with some light stropping. Sorry to hear that the grind is so off on your Sebenza!

Did not have that problem on my razorsharp umnumzaan. I touched it up using Ultra fine recently, first time, only used steel and strop before that.

I would say reprofile the edge if it is a user. Other wise send it back to CRK for them to have a look.
As for the metal thingy. It was only introduced with the Sebenza 21 so the LE you bought might be before those were introduced. My memory is foggy now on when it was the Sebs 21st birthday....

Nyefmaker cleared up the issue, it was introduced later in 2009

Whoops I meant to start a new thread. I'm on my iPhone at a shop. I'll fix it in a minute.

Congrats on your grail knife

With the sole exception of an Insingo model I picked up, new sebenzas are DULL. I've complained about it for years. Doesn't seem to do much good.
I've been tempted to send a spyderco whatever along with a seb back to CRK and ask them to make the seb as sharp as the spyderco.

This was my first dull CR! don't have that experience (yet?) I guess chris reeve was happy to get a masterclass sharpening from sal glesser

im convinced no one can get knives as sharp as spyderco. ive only had one or two that couldn't pop hairs.
im not great at sharpening, and have never had a knife that will "tree top" hairs, but they should all shave and slice paper easily.

My experience with spydercos are very good too. none was blunt (I have over 20 now, since I got three at spydercos' amsterdam mini meet, see the vid in my sig.

before this turns into a bashing thread have you contacted CRK?... as for the tie bar those started showing up in '09 so it would not have come on your knife. also keep in mind that your sharpener is a sharpmaker not a profilemaker and will not work effectively for that

No bashing from me. just users stating their experience. Dull is dull. sharp is sharp, sharp != dull (I do some programming ) I'm not reprofiling, just rebeveling. Thanks for pointing out the tie bar thing, I overlooked it the first time I read your post. Clears it up. I'm a happy camper about that now :thumbup: Yup, the sharpmaker is not the most effective/agressive cutter but as I said, don't want to use stones and have no other tool (yet, I have ordered dmt diafolds this weekend)

I'm sorry to hear that. That's dissapointing for sure.
I don't know what your shipping situation is or how much it would cost you but CRK will resharpen and rebevel it for you to a thinner angle if you can send it in. My next reccomendation would be get a DMT aligner kit because it's easy, it will keep the angle for you, has all the stones needed for reprofiling and it will do it much quicker than sharpmaker.
A 30 inclusive should be fine.

Shipping costs and missing the knife make it verrrry unatractive for me to send it back to CR. I'm totally confident they would help me out though.

with the diamond rods it will reprofile relatively easily.

Yes, I have them and am using them. Relative is the key word, over 2.5 hours right now.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience my friend. Its always a bummer to get excited about something ( opening that new CRK ) only to be let down. What you are experiencing is nothing new. I have had knives from CRK, Strider, Case, Buck, Gerber, ZT, Kershaw, etc. that have had perfect blade grind angle on one side, and a different angle on the other. Its never alot, 20 degrees on one side and say 23 degrees on the other. Always enough to drive you crazy though. I too use the sharpie trick and also sharpen all of my knives on a sharpmaker. I always take it as the individual is say righ handed and can grind the cutting edge easily on the right side for example, but when they grind the left side, its backwards and not as refined. Thats my thoughts anyways. Perhaps somone like Matthew Otto can explain it better and how this happens. It happens with ALL companies. I have never had a CRK with a wavy grind though. I wanna get the diamond rods for the sharpmaker someday as reprofiling would be easier. I currently use the brown rods to reprofile. My strider SMF took about 2 hours to reprofile. It was tedious, but I got it done.
As for your lanyard pin, they started putting them in the sebbies last year. I believe it started with the Umnumzaan and carried over to the sebbie as people liked them. My zaan has one, but none of my sebies do as all mine are older than last year. The ti-pin looks nice, but it did not matter to me if I had one or not. I always considered the lanyard as more of an emergency tool where if you need a small rope, you could just untie it from the knife. With the pin, it would come out and more often than not would become lost. I have read where CRK re-designed the ti-pin to stay in when the lanyard is removed, so they themselves solved the issue. Leave it to Chris......lol.

- Yeah, that's nicely put, it drove me crazy for a little while...
- sounds like a plausible explanation, I experience the same when I'm freehanding, especially when pushing one edge and drawing the other.
- wavy grind, thanks, that's the explanation I was searching for, didn't put it in words but you obviously picked it out
- in my experience the diamonds do cut somewhat quicker than the brown ones
- thanks for pointing that out dude, it's the little pieces of knowledge you share here that I really like about your posts
- that's correct. It falls out of the umnumzaan, but it stays in my small sebenza LE 2009, so it's an upgrade I assume. the LE is somewhat newer than the ummie.

A quick read of post numbers 13 through 21, of the below listed thread, may help address your concerns with reprofiling the Sebenza tip. OldDude1
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167841

thanks olddude, especially the part about tip sharpening is good to know. This actually does not account for the 'wavy grind' in my case. I'll be sure not to wear the tip out to much (although I'm going there already, I have noticed it but I'm not taking of the tip or making it a lot thinner)

Before the pigpile gets any deeper, please contact CR directly about fixing your knife. They don't have a reputation for exemplary service without reason. I'm confident that they WILL fix the knife. From time to time errors are made, especially with low production models. I've never handled a NEW Seb whose blade wasn't sharp, centered, and ground symmetrically - but that is not saying they don't exist.

I will say that my 07 Classic Ironwood Seb came back from the shop (after double luggin') noticeably sharper than when it was new. BUT the blade grind was a little off on the new blade. See below.

I can only attribute this to errors that are made when certain things are done by hand. Maybe there has been some turnover in the CR shop? I'm still a happy camper with their knives.

- no pigpile, just users saying what they feel..
- I totally believe the service part, never had to use it though, but I'm happy to know they would take care of me.
- This is a first time for me 2.
- me 2

no one is dogpiling, settle down.
nib sebenza sharpness has come up many times, but i dont think anyone doubts crk quality or doesn't love their sebs.

thanks morimotom, this thread is not getting out of hand by any means.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

wow, quite a mouthful!


rebeveling/reprofiling is easy in terms of the process, but yes, it is very time consuming.

crk customer service is exellent, ive called for a variety of things, and have always been met with very polite and helpful responses.

 

[marthinus]

zyhano

Damn! what a reply! Kudos! I hope you get the edge to your satisfaction.

 

[SteelSnob]

You could have that blade rebeveled/reprofiled in a half hour if you have the DMT aligner kit with the extra extra coarse stone depending on the angle you're trying to use.