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This one isn't a throwing knife, its a proper fighting sword. The idea was to hook around your enemy's shield.
 
Thats awesome! Never seen one like that. The throwing knives were also made to "crawl" around the shields once they made contact. They were multi bladed though. Does it look cast or forged? Is the back side flat? That one kinda looks forged but hard to tell.
 
There's a ton of little hammer marks on the blade so i think it's forged. The "back" of the blade is squared like a sabre. Only the inside is sharp.

There's a hole at the end of the hilt, you pull a leather strap through it and pull it across the D shaped outcropping near the hilt of the blade. This would keep it from flying off your hand
 
blue lander said:
Interesting! Were these knives ground into shape or forged? This one feels forged. Would they have the tools to stamp in the inscriptions and flower decorations?
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Most of the ones made shipboard or in theater were ground. As for the inscriptions and decorations. Yeah I have seen some of them actually etched into the metal of the blades. However this also could have been one that originally was sent in the "Make a knife, save a life." campaign. Many of those were forged by beginners and people who worked in community groups at someone else's forge to send to servicemen. Some of those folks did not have any skill when they started and learned as they went. Then it has probably been "rebuilt" to replace and repair damaged areas such as the reground point and the missing handle ect... Or maybe it wasn't from that background at all :D Just a thought I had when I saw it's picture.
 
Wow. Impressive how many ways we devised as a species through the years towards the same finality: loop off a head, and arm or whatever :).

I really dig this trio into history, thank you.
 
my mambele (sickle sword): the wood grip has a couple chunks missing, but you get the idea. bit longer than most, fairly thin flexible steel. inner edge a razor

mambele.jpg

how to use the mambele:

[video=youtube;yTgmxKjY--c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTgmxKjY--c&hd=1[/video]

of course some of the moves he shows would be effective for draw cuts with a 'normal' sharp sword.
 
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Is the "hump" on the back of the top sharp? trying to figure out what it might have been used for. Didn't see any use in the video. Personally the work against the shield made the most sense. The other moves it would be harder to "trap" or sweep a sword if the user knew what they were doing. As with anything when you first encounter it, it takes a while to find the proper moves to counter. So that is a serious advantage for these sorts of weapons. But after a bit of work against them, I think they also have weaknesses as well. Still a really awesome look into another corner of your collection Kron!
 
on mine, yes, makes that end into a double edged piercing weapon like a kama, lohar or my zaghnal.

zaghnol.jpg
zaghnol
 
The "beak" of mine is double edged too. I think it used to come to a point which had since snapped off.
It seems like a very effective weapon for disarming your enemy or getting around his shield, but it seems less than ideal for actually hurting the other guy...
 
just for interest, the african throwing knife ndoghouse mentioned. popular in the southern sudan.

Capture 001.jpg

usually a few were carried behind a large hide shield. as mentioned, they did not have wood grips, at most a cord or leather wrap.
i personally think they are ugly, awkward and don't own any, but to each his own.

central & southern africa had evolved a formal warfare routine that was designed to limit fatalities and was conducted gentlemanly, the warring tribes would agree on where & when, they would meet there at the designated time, along with their wives and children as spectators on the sidelines. they would of course have lots of singing and dancing about their ancestral lineages, their deeds and prowess (and beer) before advancing to spear range, throw their spears and advance closer to throw their knives and clubs. they rarely got down to hand to hand. the winner with the one with least casualties, the chiefs would agree on a penalty for the loser. more singing and dancing and they all went home. fatalities were rare. nasty wounds more common.

shaka, the illegitimate son of a shona chief changed all that in the early 19c. he trained his warriors pretty much like romans. his first battle with them, they advanced as usual in formation unlike their opposing mob, threw their spears and recieved those of the enemy, as normal, then charged with their short stabbing spears, used like a roman gladius, the reserves spread around the enemy flanks and rear, trapping them, and the slaughter continued. the zulu empire had arrived. sadly for them, a bit too late as the gun totin' europeans were in the end unstoppable. who knows what the world would have been like if he'd ocurred a few centuries earlier. if the europeans and arabs had come upon a unified africa in the16c arranged along the lines of the spartans and using roman tactics with weapons at least equal, history may have been a lot different.
 
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kronckew said:
just for interest, the african throwing knife, popular in the southern sudan.
...
usually a few were carried behind a large hide shield. as someone mentioned, they did not have wood grips, at most a cord or leather wrap.
i personaly think they are ugly and don't own any, but to each his own.
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Yes those are cool. I particularly like the shongo (Hunga Munga to some) for some reason. Ugly maybe, Wicked for sure!

I have drawn up a model to scale (18") and plan to cut one out of plywood and learn to throw them. Their blades actuallly are fabricated around a center of gravity or rotational axis even though they look random sometimes. If I was to ever get reasonably good at it:rolleyes: I would like to make one of steel. I have seen many of them forged and many seem to be cast. You can tell the cast ones by the flat back and lack of beveled edge. Some look like they were poured in the sand as a cast and there are probably many copies and fakes. There is usually a long appendage near the handle that is cut short during the ritual acceptance of the tribal member to the "warrior" status. I think I read that somewhere:rolleyes: so dont take it as fact? I wanted to do a separate thread on these and fabrication of one and probably still will but im not ready to forge one yet. I think there would have to be some welding to make one or something more complex like water jet or plasma cutting which I dont have. Im thinking 1" plywood would be a start.
 
attachments not working, blue lander.

i like barongs, simple & murderous in a little package. there were recorded instances of the moro jurementados cutting a marine in half at the waist with one after being shot six times with his issue .38 (9mm). they started writing home for their folkes to send them .45LC single actions. one more reason the army went to .45acp. a fact the current army bean counters forgot when they switched from .45acp to 9mm for economy. lo and behold we are fighting muslims again & the troops are shouting for .45's to replace their puny 9mm berettas.

those who do not study history will be forced to relive it.

anyway, look forward to better pictures. some of them had laminated blades which will ashow up with a light etch with a half lemon or vinegar after you clean off any active (red) rust.

many scabbards are fairly basic. in battle they'd drop the scabbards before attacking and go back for it after they won. and if they didn't win, they figured they wouldn't need it. some of the more prestigious moro leaders, datu, had really fancy scabbards and delicate ivory of fancy wood, silver, even gold grips to show they dd not need to go into battle as they had peons to do that for them. they frequently had laminated steel blades. even the mnosteel ones were high quality. filipino bladesmiths were and still are in general very good.

my two 'modern' ones, L6 steel razors (i added the fringe of silver skull beads on the belt loop of the longer visayan barong)

barong.jpgbarong 002 web.jpg
 
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ah. see it now. looks like a nice one, the scabbard is not over-carved, or carved with a place name like many touristy ones. if the crack isn't too bad, you can wick some superglue into the crack to fill & bond it. the grip seems to be missing a braided cord wrap or a decorative silver panel. you may find after cleaning and etching that yo do have a laminated or inserted hard edged & differentially tempered blade.

is one side of the scabbard broken off? probably had another wing mirroring the other side. a creative carver could fit an appropriate repair piece, or carve a new scabbard. or you could cover the gap with a strip of wood (and maybe some filler) down the side just to hold the blade in securely. if you do wrap the drip, i'd suggest not usining regular 4mm paracord, thinner is better. i've found some 1mm paracord which would work if you are good at macrame knotwork. there is also a 2mm paracord which is a bit easier to use if you are just spiral wrapping. filipino makers will use a very heavy thread braided and wrapped in layers. i wouldn't thry that myself. ;).
 
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I fixed the rest of the photos, there's a couple closeups of the scabbard . Both the hilt and scabbard are pretty badly busted up. Depending how nice the steel is I'll either patch it up the best as I can or if it's nice I'll get properly repaired
 
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