Redesigning the Native

UOTE=Maarten;4049900]dear Mr. Glessner
I'm edc-ing a native for about a year. It's gone through a lot of trouble. I don't want mannequin/showbox knives . For example they must cut plastic wrap foil. heavy cartboard boxes thin copper wire, spanner bands nylon/cotton type , Nylon/prophyleen and hemp cord Aluminiumcoated plastic foil All kind of plastic coatings, wraps. My native is a 3 plain edge. i prefer plain edge for easy resharpning. Due to excessive use it got some bladeplay but still nothing to worry about. I love VG 10 despite some members nagging on this board. I think for heavy duty use it's better then s30v due to it's has in my humble oppinion a better bite and better corrossion resistence . Also resharpning is easier. I love my native 3 a lot. Compared to my boker and vixtorinox and opinel and other folders it is the best performer:) .I would like an upgrade with g10 and double steel liners for heavy use so the blade play won't accure within a year . i think the native is an all time classic that needs an upgrade to make it more legend as it already is.
I want to personally thank you for the great knives at decent prices that you suplie to us.
i think the upgrade and costprice will not effect the benefit
I will order a caly 3 for comparing. when the rush is over probably from ngk they send to europe at descent prize . In europe spyderco prices are steep.

Greetings from a spydie fan from the netherlands:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I posted this on page 5 but after further thinking i agree with the thinks mentioned above acording to price tactics.

As sal mentioned maybe skeletonized liners and bronze washers like in the D4/e4 won't make much of a price boost. It would result in a little smoother action. I would prefer the same blade as my native 3; (I agree rebelf :D), which i prefer over the earlier type s30v one .

The only changes i would like to see are a full flat grind and a little
better thumb serrations on the blade spine for push cutting.
further more i love the BRG FRN scales and the foliage Green Scales

Further i like to say i fixed the bladeplay by tapping the first pin behind the pivot pin with a nylon hammer Gently 2 times at each side. All the blade play is gone now!!! This happened of cutting a lot of kevlar spanner bands around steel barrels in this action i had to twist the blade as the spanners were very tight.

overall this knive is in compatition with my D4W another EDC favorite of mine!

And yes SilentS A fixed 4/4.5" native with mircata handle would shure be something !!

Take Care
 
Redesign the Native? No. I'd simply redesign all the Walmarts in my area so I could actually buy one of the little guys in plain edge. :(

I'd buy one from New Graham, but on my budget I have to go with the cheapest option out there.

Grr...
 
The walmart up here in Houghton has a decent selection. Thats where I picked up my S30V PE FRN Native...
 
Full flat:thumbup:
Regular clip(no wire)
...and please make the serrated version REALLY fully serrated(preferably to the very tip):thumbup:
 
Whats the big deal about the full flat? I haven't had any issues with the slight hollow; still cuts like a dream.
 
I think this would be an awesome Native...

Take the Native III and make it about 1/2" longer and give it H-1 blade-steel!
 
Oh well, here we go again...
Although I find my Native a very good knife, it never fit my hand like say a Calypso jr. That's why I was thinking at a few modifications (see pics below). This would be my ultimate dream Native.
attachment.php

attachment.php

Keep the FRN unlinered!
 
That looks great except for the wire clip.
IMO any model with a wire clip should be designed so as a standard clip could be used as well.
 
I love my VG-10 Native III. Favorite overall knife out of the 50+ that I have. I would like to see an "upper market" version with premium handle materials, i.e., polished CF, G-10. etc. Liners as well for more heft like the Mini-Manix, oh yea, get rid of the pins and use Torx screws.
 
dialex said:
Oh well, here we go again...
Although I find my Native a very good knife, it never fit my hand like say a Calypso jr. That's why I was thinking at a few modifications (see pics below). This would be my ultimate dream Native.
Click to expand...

That's a great looking knife! If it was about 15% larger than the present native, I'd say it was about the perfect knife. I love the flat grind on my new Manix, but it's a little big for easily carrying in my pocket. My Native tucks away very easily, but is just a little small for my hand. Plus, the hollow grind makes it work less well in slicing deeply into things like fruit.

Cool photoshopping! Sal, could I add this to my Christmas wish list?!
 
A rounded cusp like in dialex's illustration would be great! For me that would make the handle more comfortable by far simply by rounding that point a little. It would also be nice if the handle could be changed so that it does not cover the spyder-hole at all, and I personally prefer the larger diameter holes like on the Delica 4 (13mm) or the Salt/Stretch (14mm).

I have a Native S30V PE black blade (on me right now) and a S30V SE that I love. The SE has been used hard and developed a little blade play, but no big deal. I like the Native model a lot and appreciate there being a low-cost made-in-the-USA spyderco. I like barrel bolt clips to - they seem very durable and there is little risk of stripping threads.

I have a Native III on the way and look forward to comparing it with my current Natives.

Personally I like the S30V Native a lot as-is. I think linerless is fine, size is perfect for me, choil is great, I like the thick blade and blade shape, and love having a low price S30V knife. The only issue for me is that pointy area in the mid-handle and the hole.
 
I love the thought of a flat grind and i'd like to see them bring back the SS handles with a plain edge.
 
I like the way STR said.

1. Spring holder must be metal.
2. Screw construction (at least must be at pivot)

:D
 
The native is a pretty good knife just the way it is. And it seems to me from reading these posts, that no one disagrees with that. The question is what direction to take with redesign changes. It looks to me, like there are two ways to go. One is to go with incremental engineering and ergonomic changes that do not significantly change the price point; the other is to add material upgrades in materials to the basic engineering and ergonomic improvements. I suspect the key question there, is whether Spyderco is willing to, or can, change the price point.

And, before we get started, we should figure out just which Native we are talking about here, because to me, the original Native and the Native III are two completely different knives - kissing cousins perhaps, but still two different animals.

I think that what Sal is talking about is the original Native, and I am going to assume that’s the one we are talking about – and the model that I have used hard and carried as EDC for about the last four years – until I got my Caly 3 about three months ago, and which knocked my trusted Native out of EDC. .

My bias is for an upgrade in materials, and obviously I would be willing to pay more for that. With that said, these are the changes I would like to see – in priority order.

No change to blade steel – but with full flat ground blade as in Dialex’s drawings.

Changes to the handle design, again, similar to Dialex’s design.

Compression lock

Liners – full or nested, I have no preference. I don’t know about function, but ergonomically, my spydies that have liners just feel sturdier when I use them.

Screws instead of rivets

G10 or peel-ply CF scales.

Sal, make me that knife and my Caly 3 would just have to take an early retirement. :D

Chuck
 
I've put some thought into what I would like to see changed on the native and what I've come up with is pretty much identical to the version dialex came up with. I very much prefer the wire clip so that would be a must have on the new version in my opinion. An adjustable pivot would also be a must have. Rounding over that one point that dialex discussed would go a long way toward making this knife more comfortable in my hands, as well as rounding out the choil area. A full flat ground would be a nice touch but I am happy with the current gring. Some of these changes would make it perfect. I very much look forward to the revised version.

So to sum it all up here's what I want:

rounded choil and cusp as per dialex's diagram
wire clip for sure
adjustable pivot
full flat grind (but I am happy with the current grind)
 
dialex said:
Oh well, here we go again...
Although I find my Native a very good knife, it never fit my hand like say a Calypso jr. That's why I was thinking at a few modifications (see pics below). This would be my ultimate dream Native.
attachment.php

attachment.php

Keep the FRN unlinered!
Click to expand...

Looks great Alex, I'd buy it!
 
dialex said:
Oh well, here we go again...
Although I find my Native a very good knife, it never fit my hand like say a Calypso jr. That's why I was thinking at a few modifications (see pics below). This would be my ultimate dream Native.
attachment.php

attachment.php

Keep the FRN unlinered!
Click to expand...

OMG! I believe Dialex just designed the ULTIMATE EDC! I also think I would be better without the swedge and possibly 3.25" blade length?
 
Let me cast my vote for:

*G10 with liners
*keep the lockback
*reduce blade length to under 3"
*go to flat grind
*and use that BG42 that's coming on this one.

:)
 
I am recently the proud owner of a Natve 3. I purchased it to replace my old EDC. All I can say is "Wow!". This knife offers superb ergonomics and a beefy blade despite it's lightweight profile. The wire clip is a nice addition also as it makes it less conspicuous in my pocket at work. I woukd really have liked to purchase a mini-manix, but for the price (and the abuse I afflict my EDCs with) the Native is a powerful workhorse and I'm very pleased. Too bad is doesn't come in ZDP though, or does it?
 
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