Regional stockman patterns and were they really carried by the cowboys/vaqueros?

I'm sadly not too much help on the history side, but I can tell you what I see around here everyday. I live in rural Texas, my family does a little ranching, and there are more than a few cattle and especially big horse ranches around here, and I can safely say the whole western or cowboy thing is culturally ingrained. It's pretty close to a 50/50 split between modern folders (almost universally clipped in the back pocket and spydercos being the most frequent) and traditionals. Most of us who are modern folder fans also tend to carry a traditional as well. I can say that from what I see, the trapper patterns outnumber probably all other patterns 10 to 1 around here. Lot and lots of Case and Moore Maker, generally large trappers, and frequently in tooled leather belt sheaths.

I'm at little outside of my realm in this discussion- especially on the history part, but it is an extremely interesting topic!
 
Toddwalla said:
Here is an interesting link to a bit of history on what cowboys carried in the Missouri Range and Dakota areas published by the national park service:

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/thro1/rickey.pdf

It seems cowboys in these areas preferred large folders and clasp knives to fixed blades. There is also a lot of info on the guns and clothes, etc. that they carried with them. No direct mention of stockmen or cattle knives, but a fascinating read nonetheless.
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This is a fantastically cool link! Fascinating!

On a somewhat related note, do y'all know what state has the longest history of ranching of any in the U.S.? I'll give you a hint, it's not Texas. I'll give you another hint: It's Florida.

-- Mark
 
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coffeecup said:
Punches are real handy when you're out for days or weeks at a time. When a strap or rein breaks, just punch a couple holes, thread a piece of wire through, and twist it up tight--leaving better repairs for later.

When you're back at the tack shed every day, carrying a punch becomes less important.
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I bet some or even many cowboys carried purpose made leather tools, since your saddle and tack were essential to your well being out on the range. A punch in a pocket knife in a pinch but real mending needed dont it was out with the "tool kit" if their were such a thing
 
akadave2 said:
I bet some or even many cowboys carried purpose made leather tools, since your saddle and tack were essential to your well being out on the range. A punch in a pocket knife in a pinch but real mending needed dont it was out with the "tool kit" if their were such a thing
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Probably, but I bet a punch on a slipjoint would be good for that quick fix until you got back to the wagon so you could do it right.
 
jackknife said:
Cowboys being mostly young and poor working class, carried what ever was cheap at the General Store in town, or was a hand-me-down from an older brother or father. ... By 20 years after the Civil War, the cattle trade was going down, and a lot of cowboys found themselves out of work and riding the grub line. I imagine that you'd see anything from a cheap single blade clasp knife to a old well used skinner or butcher pattern in a home made sheath being used.

Carl.
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Not to be that weird Opinel guy, but can you imagine how many knives Opinel would have sold out West had they been available back in the day!? Great steel, no frills, reliable, easy to carry -- and dirt cheap. I reckon nine cowboys out of 10 would have been toting a "Frenchie."

-- Mark
 
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mnblade said:
Not to be that weird Opinel guy, but can you imagine how many knives Opinel would have sold out West had they been available back in the day!? Great steel, no frills, reliable, easy to carry -- and dirt cheap. I reckon nine cowboys out of 10 would have been toting a "Frenchie."

-- Mark
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If the grandfather of Joseph Opinel had been the one with the idea of mass commercial manufacture of the peasant friction folder that we all know and love, I think what you say could be very possible. I don't see how a young cowboy in need of a low cost knife is any different than a young farmer or laborer in France. Yes, it could have been possible, but I have just a little trouble getting my head around it. I'm trying to picture the Duke cutting off a chaw in "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" with an Opinel, or Sam Elliott using an Opinel in the silver screen. Or Gary Coper whittling a toothpick for himself while muttering "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" while waiting on the noon train.
:D

But "IF" the Opinel had been available in the old west, I can see how it would have been popular. A good sharp knife at a bargain price, is still a good sharp knife.

Carl.
 
jackknife said:
I'm trying to picture the Duke cutting off a chaw in "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" with an Opinel, or Sam Elliott using an Opinel in the silver screen. Or Gary Coper whittling a toothpick for himself while muttering "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" while waiting on the noon train.
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A great man once wrote, "I suspect that history and Hollywood both have warped the view a little bit." ;)

-- Mark
 
Fun and interesting thread and links.

fwiw, despite the dearth of fixed blades worn in the saddle by USA Cowpokes, the South American ones dont seem to stab themselves from falling onto a leather sheath. However, they dont use leather sheaths either. They use metal sheaths (or leather sheaths with metal mouths and tips). Note the belt clips, and the "coins" on the sheath tips, so there is no point to fall on.

criollo19.jpg


Facon.jpg
 
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I am no expert on history but I have been thrown off more horses than I can remember and I am sure that I was wearing a fixed blade knife at least a few times. I guess I just never heard that rule but it can't be any more dangerous than wearing a six gun. Hell, John Wayne never rode without at least one pistol.
P.S. I just realized that I was responding to comments in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ds-on-a-ranch? more than the current thread that we are on. I really don't know any cowboys that carry a fixed blade but they just aren't in style around here. Most carry trappers or knives with pocket clips. I don't know any that wear a six gun.
I will probably see a guy that will make a liar out of me tomorrow though.
 
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I grew up cowboying on my granddad's spread, and cowboyed for a living for a few years as a young man.

I carried a stockman most of that time, and a trapper the rest of the time.
 
genewiseman said:
I am no expert on history but I have been thrown off more horses than I can remember and I am sure that I was wearing a fixed blade knife at least a few times. I guess I just never heard that rule but it can't be any more dangerous than wearing a six gun. Hell, John Wayne never rode without at least one pistol.
P.S. I just realized that I was responding to comments in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...ds-on-a-ranch? more than the current thread that we are on. I really don't know any cowboys that carry a fixed blade but they just aren't in style around here. Most carry trappers or knives with pocket clips. I don't know any that wear a six gun.
I will probably see a guy that will make a liar out of me tomorrow though.
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I was raised about 45 minutes from Watts, over around Oaks and Rocky Ford Oklahoma.

I live up by Oolagah now.
 
NjHart said:
.......

I can say that from what I see, the trapper patterns outnumber probably all other patterns 10 to 1 around here. Lot and lots of Case and Moore Maker, generally large trappers, and frequently in tooled leather belt sheaths.,,,,,,!
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This is my experience as well, including some Carl Schlieper Eye Brand and older big Shrade Walden trappers.
 
jon_slider said:
Fun and interesting thread and links.

fwiw, despite the dearth of fixed blades worn in the saddle by USA Cowpokes, the South American ones dont seem to stab themselves from falling onto a leather sheath. However, they dont use leather sheaths either. They use metal sheaths (or leather sheaths with metal mouths and tips). Note the belt clips, and the "coins" on the sheath tips, so there is no point to fall on.

criollo19.jpg


Facon.jpg
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Those knives you posted aren't good examples. Gauchos had both working knives, and dressier versions. The knives above are of the Sunday, barbecue type. The silver (German silver?) on the sheaths indicate as much. Working blades were housed in much more basic leather sheaths.

- Christian
 
kamagong said:
Those knives you posted aren't good examples. Gauchos had both working knives, and dressier versions. The knives above are of the Sunday, barbecue type. The silver (German silver?) on the sheaths indicate as much. Working blades were housed in much more basic leather sheaths.

- Christian
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I can see your point but I bet gauchos are just like cowboys as they have their work gear and also their "going to town gear". I lot of guys I know don't wear the same boots Saturday night that they wear wading through the sh** working cattle.
 
genewiseman said:
I can see your point but I bet gauchos are just like cowboys as they have their work gear and also their "going to town gear". I lot of guys I know don't wear the same boots Saturday night that they wear wading through the sh** working cattle.
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That's exactly my point Gene. I was responding to Jon's assertion that the gauchos don't use leather sheaths for their criollos. They do.

- Christian
 
Great thread everyone, I'm really enjoying this one.

Jon -- with that large punal on his belt, it took me a second to see the other necessity of modern "gauchismo" clipped on his right hip. Love it!

-- Mikel.

jon_slider said:
Fun and interesting thread and links.

fwiw, despite the dearth of fixed blades worn in the saddle by USA Cowpokes, the South American ones dont seem to stab themselves from falling onto a leather sheath. However, they dont use leather sheaths either. They use metal sheaths (or leather sheaths with metal mouths and tips). Note the belt clips, and the "coins" on the sheath tips, so there is no point to fall on.

criollo19.jpg


Facon.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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