Reliable Safe Lock Mechanism

J.Mattson said:
The reason why the spine whack test isn’t just abuse but a useless test is that for no particular reason a knife may pass or fail the test for no particular reason (as in it may pass the first 5 times fail the 6th, and pass the next 5 and so on). To buy a knife or not to buy a knife based on the test is absurd.
Click to expand...

That is just plain incorrect. If the knife fails, there is a reason. It is not happenstance.

If your knife fails you either broke the lock, the knife is faulty, or something is wrong (lint, too much lube, etc.).

There are a plethora of knives with locks that are generally reliable out there. The Paul lock and most of its variant, the Axis-lock, the Arc-lock, the Ball-bearing lock, the plunger-lock (usually on autos), the Bolt-Action lock, the RAM-lock appears reliable, and not to mention many variants of the old lock-back (look what Cold-Steel is making), ad nauseum.

At one time I felt that a liner-lock of quality materials and from a reputable maker was worth recommending as a potential buy; no more. Liner-locks fail too often.

Frame locks suffer many of the issues liner-locks do. But, so far the incendence of failure seems less. Still, I hesitate to recommend such knives to others.

Whatever knife you choose, learn the various methods of testing a knife lock and test the lock on your knife. Remember that testing lock reliability is not a robustness test. Unproven reliability is no reliability.

BTW - even cheap knives can have reliable locks. Opinel's ring lock isn't particularly convenient nor robust, but the lock is reliable. I have a CCC of the TiNives design, with plunger-lock, that has passed some rather abusive tasks with complete reliability.
 
I have been using slip joints for over 45 years without incident. Should we condemn those as well?
 
wildjim said:
Now we're getting somewhere. It seems the Axis Lock is the best effort so far. Cold Steel's Ultra Lock appears to operate in a similar manner on my Recon 1
Click to expand...

Nope, the best effort is a manually engaged lock like on the Opinel. The blade would have to actually cut through the locking ring for it to fail...but you probably weren't considering it because it doesn't lock itself.
 
elkins45 said:
Nope, the best effort is a manually engaged lock like on the Opinel. The blade would have to actually cut through the locking ring for it to fail...but you probably weren't considering it because it doesn't lock itself.
Click to expand...

Actually, on mine the ring deformed off - but it was an Opinel knock-off.
 
Although I personally do not like Cold Steel knives, their Tri-Ad lock seems to be very good. It almost seems like a hybrid of a lockback and a compression lock in that the spring and release are identical to a lockback, but the locking bar wedges itself between a stop pin and the blade tang providing an incredibly strong lock up similar to that of a compression lock. you can check out a diagram on CS's website here. Now if only CS would offer something more conventional in appearance with G10 and nicer steels that weren't so outrageously overpriced like their san mai offerings.
 
Last edited:
I have always been a huge Axis fan but I recently discovered the Spyderco compression lock and I think it is superior, both in strength and in safety. Because of its position on the handle, the Axis can, in theory at least, be accidentally disengaged by a backward movement of the hand on the grip. It appears impossible to have such an accidental release of the compression lock.
 
amper124 said:
+1 :D

But seriously when talking about "FOLDING KNIFES".
IMHO the best - but illegal in some countries (god bless that not in mine ;]) - locks, are ...

BALISONGS :D

There is no way to broke the "lock", other then turning the axle(s) or handles into pieces.
Click to expand...


this is very true. Balisongs are in fact the strongest folders. There's no way for them to fail. The blade would need to break. If you are not interested in a butterfly knife though, it is believed that Liner locks are most likely the strongest locks. Very simple and efficient. If you want the strongest liner locks, look to cold steel. Toughest production knives
 
elkins45 said:
Nope, the best effort is a manually engaged lock like on the Opinel. The blade would have to actually cut through the locking ring for it to fail...but you probably weren't considering it because it doesn't lock itself.
Click to expand...

On the opinels I've used the ring simply slides off with enough pressure. It seems to be a sturdy enough lock for basic cutting and whittling but I wouldn't trust it for anything heavy duty.

The nice thing about an opinel is that since it's both a ring lock and a friction folder, even if the lock fails you are also protected by the friction of the handle against the blade.

edit: but then agian, if you're hitting it hard enough to make the lock fail you're hitting it hard enough to overcome that friction....
 
Of all the locks out there, I think liner and frame locks are the easiest to do wrong. If the angle of the blade surface that mates with the lock is too obtuse, the lock will engage but it will fail the spine tap (or whack) test. If the angle is not obtuse enough (or even a right angle), then the lock won't engage or engages loosely. If the liner material is too thin, then it might bend, kink or even fail under pressure.

However, if the manufacturer knows what he's doing, the liner/frame lock is also the simplest of them all. There is no pin and spring to lose/break. With the frame lock there is no nook/cranny where dirt or fine sand can gather. It's practically maintenance free. There's a reason Chris Reeve, Strider, and Hinderer use frame locks.
 
elkins45 said:
Nope, the best effort is a manually engaged lock like on the Opinel. The blade would have to actually cut through the locking ring for it to fail...but you probably weren't considering it because it doesn't lock itself.
Click to expand...

I purchased one. It'll be here soon along with SVORD peasant knife and two Beckers, and a Tramontina machete. That's all I can remember right now.
 
Sep said:
Of all the locks out there, I think liner and frame locks are the easiest to do wrong. If the angle of the blade surface that mates with the lock is too obtuse, the lock will engage but it will fail the spine tap (or whack) test. If the angle is not obtuse enough (or even a right angle), then the lock won't engage or engages loosely. If the liner material is too thin, then it might bend, kink or even fail under pressure.

However, if the manufacturer knows what he's doing, the liner/frame lock is also the simplest of them all. There is no pin and spring to lose/break. With the frame lock there is no nook/cranny where dirt or fine sand can gather. It's practically maintenance free. There's a reason Chris Reeve, Strider, and Hinderer use frame locks.
Click to expand...

I feel safe using the CRKT Kit Carson M16 Liner Lock knives with LAWKS and especiallty AutoLAWKS since reading of lock failures.

I agree simple is better without springs to eventually weaken and or fail. But the Frame Lock has no mechanical fail safe other than hand pressure so the Liner Lock with LAWKS gets my vote to date. I am fine with the Axis and Ultra Lock also its just the springs and things that concern me.

Anyway I didn't start the thread to appease me rather a reference for everyone to the current most reliable and safe folding knife locks based on the combined knowledge of the users here on BladeForums
 
Last edited:
A.P.F. said:
I have been using slip joints for over 45 years without incident. Should we condemn those as well?
Click to expand...

Yeah My dad used a few old slip joint knives maybe a Case and Schrade. I can't remember the model don't know what happened to the knives.

Unfortunately I managed to close a couple knives like that on my finger so now I still fear them.

Easter a year ago I stabbed myself with a Swiss Army Knife while cutting a block on chocolate on my leg in the car. The knife zipped through the choclate and into the top of my leg before I knew what happened. I caught the chocolate pieces quickly shoved the smaller piece in my mouth and then grabbed my leg and applied direct pressure from about 15 minutes on the way home. It ruined my new jeans and I still have a scar ; )
 
wildjim said:
Yeah My dad used a few old slip joint knives maybe a Case and Schrade. I can't remember the model don't know what happened to the knives.

Unfortunately I managed to close a couple knives like that on my finger so now I still fear them.

Easter a year ago I stabbed myself with a Swiss Army Knife while cutting a block on chocolate on my leg in the car. The knife zipped through the choclate and into the top of my leg before I knew what happened. I caught the chocolate pieces quickly shoved the smaller piece in my mouth and then grabbed my leg and applied direct pressure from about 15 minutes on the way home. It ruined my new jeans and I still have a scar ; )
Click to expand...

A reliable lock wouldn't have saved your leg.

NEVER trust a lock. Knives were meant to cut with the edge.
If you're gonna pry and stab, use the proper tool...and it ain't a knife, and a lock won't save you if you do 'unwise' things.
I recommend somehow getting over your fear of slippies...if you can learn to use a slipjoint without bleeding, you won't need a 'reliable' lock. If you repeatedly cut yourself with a slippie, you'd best stay away from knives altogether. Just my 2¢...
 
flashlife said:
A reliable lock wouldn't have saved your leg.

NEVER trust a lock. Knives were meant to cut with the edge.
If you're gonna pry and stab, use the proper tool...and it ain't a knife, and a lock won't save you if you do 'unwise' things.
I recommend somehow getting over your fear of slippies...if you can learn to use a slipjoint without bleeding, you won't need a 'reliable' lock. If you repeatedly cut yourself with a slippie, you'd best stay away from knives altogether. Just my 2¢...
Click to expand...

Thank You for the insight but believe me I already know how dumb it was to cut the chocolate on my leg! No repaeat of that brilliant idea ; )
 
flashlife said:
NEVER trust a lock. Knives were meant to cut with the edge.
If you're gonna pry and stab, use the proper tool...and it ain't a knife, and a lock won't save you if you do 'unwise' things.
Click to expand...


And just what is the proper tool for stabbing into something to start a cut?

I've done such with slipjoints without any particular issues. Why should a locking knife present any special issues?

"NEVER trust a lock"? Why not? The whole point of having a locking knife is to have a blade that locks open. Locking blades are also a safety feature to prevent the blade from closing on ones fingers. Safety features are expected to be 100% reliable.
 
One factor to think about is how you hold the knife. I'm a big fan of frame locks because the tighter you squeeze them the tighter you engage the lock---BUT that doesn't apply if you're holding them upside down. Think about how you hold a knife when field dressing a deer: in this case the frame lock isn't superior to a good liner lock because you're not applying any extra pressure to the locking bar.

Of course in this particular example you should be using a fixed blade anyway, but if you had to use a folder and you're worried about a blade closing on you in an upside-down grip then an Axis would be a better bet.
 
Strongest I think is on the biggest knives because there is more metal used to make the lock.
Safest I think is opinel, bali, and the side lock on Victorinox big saks.
I just don't think there is any plausible way for the Vic side lock to disengage by accident.
 
elkins45 said:
I thought about that about 5 minutes after I posted. How hard did you have to whack it to make the lock break?
Click to expand...

I was cutting a thickish plastic container's top off. If you have NAVY experience, the container had walls a little thicker then an AFFF container. I had already scored my cut line on the outside of the container.

Pounded the knife in and was rocking the blade along (using my off hand as a levering block) when I noticed I had deformed the ring.

Levering a cut through thick material can be hard on a lock, but such use is reasonably common.

I consider these wood handle ring lockers as light to medium use knives. But, I could see how one could make a heavy duty version using different materials and MIB (Make It Bigger) engineering.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top