Remington Bullet...is it worth it? Pictures added

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ranchmanben

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Jan 18, 2011
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In a local store they have a 1123 natural jigged bone trapper. The first time I went in the blades, which have been sharpened a lot but have life still in them, showed the natural patina that comes with a knife of that age. The scales were in awesome shape. I went in a week later and the dud had taken sand paper to the blades and then applied some sort of fake patina to it. You would think the owner of an antique store would know better. At $275 I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on a cleaned up knife. Am I being to picky about a bullet trapper? My wife and I are going to town tomorrow so I'll try to take some pictures to show the condition.

Ben
 
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I'd pass and explain to the dude why. You're right...he should know better.
 
Avoid that one like the plague, and (+1) tell him why. He really messed it up, assuming he still expects to sell it at that price.

Might even direct him to BF (Bernard Levine's forum, specifically), and let Bernard 'explain it' to him. Pics are a good idea, and pretty much mandatory in his forum anyway. ;)
 
LKJW said:
I'd pass and explain to the dude why. You're right...he should know better.
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+ you need to know or be assured that it is authentic. There are a lot of fakes and copies on the market.

Go to www.collectorknives.net (a Blade Forums paying dealer sponsor) and when the main page comes up, click on "Other Brand Knives" in the left pane and then go to page 2 of that section. Go to the very bottom of page 2 and you will see 3 Remington Bullet Knives. They have all been authenticated by "Bernard Levine". Some would say they are a bit pricy but they are the real dea and they are in the ball park price wise. You can call "Knifeswapper" or e-mail him for more information on them.

http://www.collectorknives.net/other2.html

Anyway, I'd be a little hesitant to buy a cleaned-up, sand papered knive although in the past, I have gotten some dandies in that way/condition.

At $275 that is very cheap for a Remington Bullet cleaned up and sanded or not in good condition - no cracked covers, not wobbly, etc..
 
ranchmanben said:
In a local store they have a 1123 natural jigged bone trapper. The first time I went in the blades, which have been sharpened a lot but have life still in them, showed the natural patina that comes with a knife of that age. The scales were in awesome shape. I went in a week later and the dud had taken sand paper to the blades and then applied some sort of fake patina to it. You would think the owner of an antique store would know better. At $275 I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on a cleaned up knife. Am I being to picky about a bullet trapper? My wife and I are going to town tomorrow so I'll try to take some pictures to show the condition.

Ben
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Unfortunately, this seems to be more and more common. I'd say most of the knives on Ebay have been polished, sanded or refinished in some fashion. Any pattern collector with a sizable collection has some in his collection... though he might not admit it. What really concerns me is that there seem to be a lot of people that actually like refinished knives and even fakes! Sometimes they sell for as much as the real deal. ...I worry some day, there won't be any vintage knives with original finish left.

I think Ed gives good advice... for a change (just teasing, Ed! :p)
 
I picked up a serpentine jack early this year, maybe early last year. It is a Remington, but has brass scales. I think it has been altered somehow. I spent a helluva lot less than your gem. Mine had a really nice patina, and had been sharpened down. Nothing wrong with haggling with him, but at this point you're going to piss him off offering him what it's really worth.
 
If you found an authentic 1123 with no cracks in the bone and some blade loss, I would jump on it. Cleaned or not, $275 is a good price (depending on the severity of the condition). If there is a lot of blade loss, it doesn't matter if its been cleaned....it's already lost most of its investment quality and it's value really has to do with the pattern and its scarcity.

There is a big difference in the remington serpentine jack and the 1123 bullet. A pristine bullet will sell for $1000 plus. I've seen 1123's (and other bullet knives) that are beat up, but with good blades and scales, sell in excess of $600. Of course, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.....but just an fyi on the market for these knives.

Post a picture. I'd love to see how much blade is left.

For what it's worth, I would probably ask around $250 for this one (and mods....don't construe this as an offer to sell). I'm not sure if someone would buy it for that amount....but who knows. It's a moot point because I use this all the time and would never get rid of it

DSC00249.jpg
 
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Jump on it! You're going to use it anyway... correct? If it still has descent blades, I'd
be all of it! That's just me...

Jason
 
Thanks for the responses guys. I went by the store today, closed. I'll try again on Monday.

Ed, those are some beauties for sale. I think I need to win the lottery.

Campbell, the blades are both a little more full than than the clip on your trapper and the scales are in better shape. If I remember correctly, there is one small crack at on of the pins. Thank you for the picture and price, that really helps me get an idea of the value.

Ben
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Avoid that one like the plague, and (+1) tell him why. He really messed it up, assuming he still expects to sell it at that price.

Might even direct him to BF (Bernard Levine's forum, specifically), and let Bernard 'explain it' to him. Pics are a good idea, and pretty much mandatory in his forum anyway. ;)
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Agree with every word. He ruined the knife by sandpapering it IMO. You'd think that since he was going to put a patina on it anyway he would have left what was already there. :thumbdn:
 
Other guy, that's exactly what I've been thinking about the patina. It would be like some one buying a nice turn of the century house, tearing it down and putting a mobile home on the lot.

Ben
 
The mention of 'fake patina' (at a minimum) on that knife really made me cringe. I can appreciate that some skilled craftsmen can 'clean up' an old knife like this, and leave it in a condition that helps retain some real value. The 'skillful use' of sandpaper isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, in that case. But, if I understand Ben's OP correctly, even if the $275 price tag was a good deal before the knife was sanded/patina'd, there's no way in the world I'd pay the same money for a 'quickie' sanding job, plus fake patina, on the same knife after the fact. That just screams out to me that the dealer didn't have any clue what he had (assuming it's authentic), and also no clue as to how he might be wrecking the value of it by trying to 'improve' it. A conscientious & knowledgeable dealer would leave it up to a potential buyer to 'fix' the knife, if desired, and wouldn't dare mess with a lifetime of real wear and true, aged patina. I doubt 'skillful use' of sandpaper was a factor here at all, but I will still be curious to see some pics of how it looks now.
 
I guess my point is that from an investment standpoint, if the blades are 1/2 full and there is a crack......it's not really investment quality (meaning you buy it with the hope that it will appreciate in value so you can sell it at a gain later). You are basically buying a very well made, somewhat rare knife. It wouldn't be a safe queen (which is my way of saying that it's a cool knife that you should use). Investment quality bullets (as with other old knives) are those that have no, or minimal use, original patina, excellent scales, etc. The fact that the original patina was taken off sucks....but it doesn't make it less of a knife from a use standpoint. Just tell the guy he shouldn't have done it, offer him what you're comfortable with, and if says no, that's that. If he says yes, then good for you.

Kerry Hampton posted this one a while back.....this is what would be considered very good condition.....


remington3.jpg
 
The knife belongs to the antique store owner and he can do whatever he likes... though it might remain his for a long time if he chooses poorly. The owner is a salesman first and foremost. He may have little interest in the knife except for selling it. The knife may have sat in his store for years with little interest.

Not all people regard old knives the same even in this forum. David, I regularly appreciate your comments but I respectfully disagree that "some skilled craftsmen can 'clean up' an old knife like this, and leave it in a condition that helps retain some real value." I don't think a 'clean up' retains anything... except maybe useability. Making an old knife usable is much different than preserving though. To preserve the knife, it isn't necessary to do anything other than to wipe down the blades with mineral oil and oil the joints. I also like to sharpen past chips in the edge IF they are real bad or IF there is no original edge left... but some people might not agree with sharpening the blade. For example, I'm leaving the Remington Sowbelly alone even though it has a chip in the tip of the sheepfoot blade because the blade has most of the original edge but I sharpened the Remington Easy Opener which had chips all over the edge and was just sharpened a little. I intend to use the Easy Opener but preserve the Sowbelly. But unfortunately there are probably more people that PREFER a cleaned knife than those that don't... even if it's going to be a wall hanger.
 
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Sowbelly only oiled. Chip left in sheepfoot which otherwise retains the factory edge. But I think more people would actually PREFER it cleaned to a high shine rather than preserve what's left of the original finish:
IMG_8050.jpg


Easy Opener Before and After sharpening and oiling the blade. I've used the knife a couple of times since these photos were taken:

Before:
Remington-Easy-Opener.jpg

Remington-EO.jpg
 
supratentorial said:
The knife belongs to the antique store owner and he can do whatever he likes... though it might remain his for a long time if he chooses poorly. The owner is a salesman first and foremost. He may have little interest in the knife except for selling it. The knife may have sat in his store for years with little interest.

Not all people regard old knives the same even in this forum. David, I regularly appreciate your comments but I respectfully disagree that "some skilled craftsmen can 'clean up' an old knife like this, and leave it in a condition that helps retain some real value." I don't think a 'clean up' retains anything... except maybe useability. Making an old knife usable is much different than preserving though. To preserve the knife, it isn't necessary to do anything other than to wipe down the blades with mineral oil and oil the joints. I also like to sharpen past chips in the edge IF they are real bad or IF there is no original edge left... but some people might not agree with sharpening the blade. But unfortunately there are probably more people that PREFER a cleaned knife than those that don't.
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Actually, Jake, I completely agree with you on that point. What I was attempting to point out was, for $275 spent (to me, yikes), a skillfully-done 'restoration' or 'cleaning up' will leave a knife much more attractive to a potential buyer (whatever the buyer's motivation, be it 'collectability' or 'useability'). Whether it retains the same $$$ value is another issue, which I wouldn't even attempt to break down or justify (though my gut tells me it can't possibly be worth as much $$$, after it's been 'fixed'). That's why I suggested earlier, to post in BRL's forum. He'd be the one to address that. :)
 
Sorry, David! I think I misunderstood. ...I'm still finishing my first cup of coffee and I get riled up about "restoration".
 
Here's a Remington from my own collection that I didn't rescue in time before it was given the popular (on eBay atleast) mirror finish.... somewhat like a melted ice cube it resembles its original form:

T2eC16RHJF0E9nmFSICIBP6HtSRbhg60_3.jpg
 
supratentorial said:
Sorry, David! I think I misunderstood. ...I'm still finishing my first cup of coffee and I get riled up about "restoration".
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:)
It's all good, Jake. We all have a different perspective as to what 'value' implies to each of us. For me, personally, I've never worried about whether any of my 'collection' ('accumulation' is more accurate) will be worth as much down the road, compared to what I paid for them. I tend to shy away from buying anything that I can't conceive of actually using someday, so the 'value' to me is in having a knife that looks good and uses beautifully. That's what catches my eye, when I see examples that have been skillfully restored or cleaned up. Money, for me, is way too tight to spend on something that I know is 'valuable' ($$$), but too valuable to actually risk damaging with any sort of 'use'. That just doesn't appeal to me anymore, and I don't tend to look at my favorite knives from that perspective. I do have a few of those, and it generally just saddens me a bit that they stay stashed away because I don't want to scuff 'em up. I get a lot more satisfaction out of the knives that are in my hands every day, or at least in my pocket. And the curious thing to me is, almost all of them were acquired for well under $100, and most much less than that. :thumbup:
 
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