Remington Bullet...is it worth it? Pictures added

The original patina was very similar to Jake's sowbelly. The blades had definatly been sharpened plenty, but there is still life in them. The owner of the store has always seemed like knowledgable seller and someone who appreciates older knives. That's why I was so surprised he did this. He has shown me other knive he had just gotten it, all he did to the others is put some oil on the joints, open and close them a few time and wipe the excess oil off. I don't know why he would chose this great knife to try out his experiment on. All that being said, it actually looked like he did a pretty good job but, as David said, he should have left it up to the buyer to tinker with the knife. This is a family shot of the other knives I've purchased from him. None had been cleaned up.

Ben

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I enjoy both using and preserving old knives. I enjoy the history. But I share the same ideas when it comes to new knives -- if I can't use them I'm not so interested... though there are a couple exceptions (like knives that have taught me something but aren't particularly practical to use). The "value" of old knives seems to be different for a lot of folks. One thing I've noticed is that except for particularly popular brands or patterns, old knives tend not to sell for that much more than modern knives...sometimes they sell for a lot less. The same goes for old tools (another interest of mine). You can buy a well preserved 80 year old hammer for less than $10... or a new hammer made overseas for double (both equally usable). That blows my mind. Here's a Schrade that cost me 10 bucks. It's not a particularly high value pattern but it is a popular brand and has a cool locking mechanism for the screwdriver. It's one of the best production knives that I've ever used yet it seems people are much more willing to quickly drop much more money on a new knife than an old one like this one... maybe it's partly because of the patina.

Schrade TL-29 Style Electrician Knife
Schrade Cut Co
Walden, NY
c1904-1946

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That's a nice grouping of very attractive knives, Ben. Does look like the dealer has some taste in the nice ones. :thumbup:

I will still be anxious to see how the Remington looks. The 'picture' painted in my mind of the knife, as described, did make me worry. But, hopefully it's not quite as grim as I had perceived.
 
Ben, The sowbelly still has a lot of the original finish left... and I paid for it also. I was sorry to hear that the Bullet had been refinished and am even more sorry now. Although it's difficult to say without seeing the knife, from your description it sounds like the price was a bargain before the tampering. I agree with what Ed and Campbell said about it still possibly being a decent user after tampering.
 
Davis, it's probably not as bad as I've made it out to be. To me, it's more about the principal of cleaning up the knife. Everyone has seen plenty of old knives that have been cleaned up but that's usually on ebay or somewhere like that. I've always imagined the knife cleaning taking place in some poorly lit basement with trash everywhere and a stack of 70's nudey mags in the corner. The guy doing the cleaning, a dirty, beady eyed man that's half man, half bear and half pig. I was shocked to find out that it's a guy in a neat little shop who's a fellow knife lover that would be the one doing the cleaning.

ben
 
ranchmanben said:
Davis, it's probably not as bad as I've made it out to be. To me, it's more about the principal of cleaning up the knife. Everyone has seen plenty of old knives that have been cleaned up but that's usually on ebay or somewhere like that. I've always imagined the knife cleaning taking place in some poorly lit basement with trash everywhere and a stack of 70's nudey mags in the corner. The guy doing the cleaning, a dirty, beady eyed man that's half man, half bear and half pig. I was shocked to find out that it's a guy in a neat little shop who's a fellow knife lover that would be the one doing the cleaning.

ben
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Now, THAT really does scare me. :eek: I have something new to worry about now, though perhaps not for your dealer (thankfully). :D
 
Ben, The photo is too small to see much detail and I will take your word on it. But I would be very surprised if none of the bottom three were cleaned at least a little.

ranchmanben said:
The original patina was very similar to Jake's sowbelly. The blades had definatly been sharpened plenty, but there is still life in them. The owner of the store has always seemed like knowledgable seller and someone who appreciates older knives. That's why I was so surprised he did this. He has shown me other knive he had just gotten it, all he did to the others is put some oil on the joints, open and close them a few time and wipe the excess oil off. I don't know why he would chose this great knife to try out his experiment on. All that being said, it actually looked like he did a pretty good job but, as David said, he should have left it up to the buyer to tinker with the knife. This is a family shot of the other knives I've purchased from him. None had been cleaned up.

Ben

IMAG0115-1.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Jake brings up a good point that I didn't mention. There is a difference between mint/unused knives, and old knives in great condition. Look through some of Charlie's (Waynorth) threads and you will see some of the most beautiful old knives without a speck of patina. They have the original manufacturer's finish (glaze, crocus, etc.). Remember that most people back in "the day" didn't buy knives to collect them....they bought them to be used. Sheesh....someone might have bought a 1123 pattern back in the 1920's, carried it everyday, never cut even a piece of rope, built up a patina, and cleaned it every 10 years for the last 90 years. A 100 year old knife might have been cleaned in 1990, and since that time it's built up a new patina. You just never know :)
 
Eloquently described, Campbell.

Here are a few that I believe to be close to original. I believe the bone handle knives have the factory finish (and some rust) and the wood handle knife has been used very little but I don't believe that it has been cleaned.

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Here's one that I suspect is lightly polished...probably with Flitz. Not as bad though, in my opinion, compared to some... and VERY common in my opinion atleast.

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I guess cleaned is not the correct word. Yes I do think they have been cleaned but to not a point where I would say it detracted from the value. What I should have said earlier instead of cleaned is sanded, patina'd or otherwise tampered with to an extent that the knive has lost some of it's value.

Ben
 
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If a knife has been heavily buffed (or sanded), one tell-tale sign is that parts of the knife that should have sharp corners (i.e. the top of the tang) get rounded.
 
I don't know...both those blades look pretty thinned out to me. I'd walk away from that one but that's just me...
 
Then bone is worn smooth but the bolsters and shield are highly polished. I can't tell for sure but the blades look chemically etched... possibly from a rust remover like Naval Jelly.
 
Ok....pictures help a lot. I wouldn't pay $275 for that one. The bone is worn smooth, which indicates big time use. I also see several cracks. Normally you don't see both blades that worn...I would consider them at 35% to 40%. You will notice in the picture of my 1123, the spey blade is probably 95% full.

He screwed the pooch on the patina. If i bought the knife, I would remove that patina, get it shiny, and then let a natural patina build up again.

That being said....the 1123's are big knives. Those blades still have a lot of use in them and it's not like the handle is going to fall apart. You could use the hell out of it and it would probably end up being one of your favorite knives. I would probably be willing to pay around $125 to $150 for it....just based on the fact that it's a cool rare pattern with a lot of use left in it. Assuming the blades have good snap and there is no wobble, I think it would be a great one to own (for a price you are comfortable paying)
 
Seeing the knife again today after not seeing it for a few days really helped me. The excitement of finding one of these rare knives had worn off. This time I was really able to look at the whole picture instead of just seeing a knife I've lusted after for a couple of years. In addition to the cracks, I also could find a pattern number on it. All in all, I think you boys are correct to tell me to pass on this one. I think I'll just keep saving for when the right one comes along. I really really appreciate all the great advice and comments from the knowledgable folks here. Thanks a bunch.

Ben
 
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