I see a few things in your posts I thought an intelligent conversation could be held in response to.
I have read Tony Bose's words also but he was speaking of the actual main grinds on a knife. Not the edge grinds. I believe I read Mr. Bose also mention he cleans up his Edge on a ceramic stone. There is a big difference between finishing on a stone and finishing on a machine.
I have also read where Mr. Bose stated that you will never get a good straight edge with a belt system. I have found myself, after a LOT of practice can be disproved. That is the skill I am talking about. The same goes for a wheel. If you have a wheel you can change the angle of the blade as you hone along the length of the edge. A flat stone IS the easiest way to produce a nice even edge IMO.
Now if I have misquoted any of Mr. Bose's words, my apologies, someone please correct me.
Moving on to anyone stating GEC sends out poor edges for any good reason, well I haven't ever seen that. I myself have continually stated that I prefer the lesser of two evils for the reason that when they TRY they seem to make the edges worse.
I could sit up at GEC and send out knives with edges that would really knock your socks off but do you think after taking over a decade to perfect my skills I would accept that low paying job from GEC? I don't think so, and I am not being "too good" I am simply expressing the sentiments that we are talking of a factory type setting in a day and age that people have more skills than sharpening a knife.
Again, I come back to my original thought that GEC would need to either train someone on stones or set up some jigs. Then you still have the skill of polishing away a burr without negating the work from the stones. Fortunately 1095 is easy.
I have Randall knives and I get that they are hand honed, and well done, but they are so far out of the GEC league I put them into custom cost knives. As for Ken Erickson knives, I have never held one to judge the eges for myself.
Kevin
Sorry for the slow reply, having internet problems, and unfortunately lost all my post. Inevitably forgotten most of it now, late here and my brain's shutting down
The English cutlers I know, and have known, generally use wheels, finishing with leather, and are capable of producing good edges, which are shaving sharp, like this. Most of the knives that come out of Sheffield cutlery factories today are not shaving sharp, and some can be downright dull, but they are sharpened by hand with wheels, and in my experience, theyre sharpened evenly, just not sufficiently. With a few exceptions, they are also very inexpensive knives.
I think you put more effort into your edges than most of us, and the results are really beautiful to see. That level of diligence is something youd rarely see even on a custom knife. However, I think there are cutlery factories all over the world, which can produce knives which are both well-ground and sharp.
As for the claims made in relation to GEC knives which Im not sure anyone at GEC would agree with youd have to search recent GEC threads here or I can PM you a couple of links. Id rather not quote them here.
I always enjoy reading your insights about old Sheffield Jack. Makes its demise all that more lamentable.
- Christian
Thank you Christian. Yes, its a shame they let quality decline so badly.
Now bad blade geometry is a whole 'nother matter, but it would seem that our expectations of what a factory edge should be have shifted markedly. Not sure where I stand on the matter actually: sometimes it's nice to get a scary sharp blade out of the box, slip it in your pocket and off you go. Other times I can appreciate doing the job myself and the satisfaction that comes from using a tool tuned to your own uses or inclinations. Either way I've not had much to quibble with about GEC's blade geometry, though I must say their edges seem to have improved over the years.
I think most of us here take pride and satisfaction in putting a good edge on our knives, but for me, getting a knife which is sharp from new doesnt spoil that experience. You can always get things a bit sharper or just use it a while and then go to work on it
I think it's interesting to note that every German-made Boker that I've ever owned arrived wicked sharp and ready for duty, right out of the box. And many of these cost 1/2 to a 1/3 of the high end offerings by Queen, S&M, GEC, etc. How is it that Boker can manage to consistently deliver this on less expensive knives, and the others, to varying degrees (with GEC being the best, in my experience?), can't?
Ive had knives from a number of manufacturers which have been shaving sharp out of the box, and I agree that theyre not always the most expensive, sometimes theyre very inexpensive.
Jack--I appreciate your thoughts on the importance of a cutler's skill in sharpening. I completely agree.
Now another question....
I can't remember where I heard it, but someone told me slipjoints used to come completely unsharpened with the expectation that the end user could sharpen it and make it their own.
Anyone ever heard that? Is it even true?
Thank you
Personally, Ive never heard that about slipjoints. Even in the past, when most folk carried a knife everyday, I really dont think the majority of them were capable of doing a good job of sharpening them. I come across too many old knives that have been dreadfully treated, with terrible badly-ground edges, to think otherwise. In the past, I know in Sheffield (and Im sure elsewhere), Italian gentlemen turned up with bicycle-powered grinding wheels to sharpen knives for a few pennies, while travelling tinkers would sharpen knives on the kerbstone or front door-step. More commonly, knives were passed between friends and relatives for someone to take into work, where they had access to a grindstone, but probably limited skills in using it. I think that a man with a good set of stones, who could sharpen his knives well, was the exception in the past, just as today.
I have handled quite a few Rough Riders that came out of the box screaming sharp.
Ive commonly seen that stated here. Ive had three Rough Riders, and theyve certainly all been sharp. I guess they have a very automated factory, but itd still be interesting to know how the final edge is put on.
As far as GEC factory edges go. The newer knives I have gotten...about 16 lately, have fine grinds and in many cases what I would consider pretty sharp edges. Now to be fair, Im fantatical about sharp and I have never seen a production or custom for that matter come sharp enough for me. Many I have gotten only required a few licks on my Sharpmaker to get them hair popping. My Pemberton for instance and ALL of my Charlows (13 in all). My JBF C Eeureka was darn sharp too.
Thats good news :thumbup:
