reprofiling s30v is a b!tch

Unless something has changed, the newer 120 grit edge pro stones are SiC. I think stones older than about 6 months are aluminium oxide.
 
It's terrifying when someone spends six hours sharpening a knife that only took 5 hours ( or less) to build
 
I'm pretty much a beginner,(age52, go figure) What would be a good rock to start with? Please excuse my ignorance.
 
You mean to tell me that you think S-30V is a monster to Re-Profile? Oooh!!! you ain't seen nothing yet :eek: . Get a Spyderco knife with 440V. It was a blade steel Spyderco used on the Golden Colorado made knives. It is a Crucible steel which they also call S60V.

440V blade steel is truly the most punishing blade steel I ever re-profiled :mad: . It really does take diamond to cut that stuff. Even though I do think that S-30V is a bit better blade steel than 440V I can't even think of a blade steel that is even as close to being as bad to re-profile as 440V is.

The only thing I can see on the chart that might account for that is it's high vanadium content. I'm not a metallurgist but there is sure something in that alloy that makes it stand out with abrasion resistance.
 
S60V has a really high carbon content along with more vanadium than S30V, S90V is even higher still, doesn't matter to silicon carbide though, that eats through CPM-10V just as easily.

-Cliff
 
I bought some silicon carbide powder straight from Ben at EdgePro.
This was to reprofile his own stones.

Cheers
 
Blammo said:
It's terrifying when someone spends six hours sharpening a knife that only took 5 hours (or less) to build
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Your response confuses me. :confused:

Why is it terrifying?

Where did you get your build time numbers?

Why are you comparing hand work to automated machine work?
 
did some sharpening today, brittle hard s30v again. with the diamondplate. i placed it netx to a rod on the SM and held it there with my finger to get the 30degree angle. after the 30µ i went straight to the white sm-rods (flat side) and gave it maybe 20 swipes on each side, after that the knife felt really sharp. but later i discovered some scratches from the diamonds a little higher up on the blade (1mm from the edge) so i decieded to remove them first with the brown rods (corner then flat) the with the white ones (corner then flat).

it took way longer time than excpected, but now its shinier, but somehow it doesnt feel as sharp anymore. its sharp alright but.. are the V-carbides being torn out by the sm-rods and actually degrading the edge the more i sharpen?

anyway i want SiC rods with triple gritsizes 1000-2000-3000, one on each side and/or diamondrods with triple grits somewhere like 30µ-12µ-3µ would satisfy me.

found round dmt rods for kitchenknives, (9µ) maybe i could make something like a sharpmaker with 2 of those, that would be cool

anyone else feel s30v and the sm is not really the best combo?? or is it just me
 
M Wadel said:
did some sharpening today, brittle hard s30v again. with the diamondplate. i placed it netx to a rod on the SM and held it there with my finger to get the 30degree angle. after the 30µ i went straight to the white sm-rods (flat side) and gave it maybe 20 swipes on each side, after that the knife felt really sharp. but later i discovered some scratches from the diamonds a little higher up on the blade (1mm from the edge) so i decieded to remove them first with the brown rods (corner then flat) the with the white ones (corner then flat).

it took way longer time than excpected, but now its shinier, but somehow it doesnt feel as sharp anymore. its sharp alright but.. are the V-carbides being torn out by the sm-rods and actually degrading the edge the more i sharpen?

anyway i want SiC rods with triple gritsizes 1000-2000-3000, one on each side and/or diamondrods with triple grits somewhere like 30µ-12µ-3µ would satisfy me.

found round dmt rods for kitchenknives, (9µ) maybe i could make something like a sharpmaker with 2 of those, that would be cool

anyone else feel s30v and the sm is not really the best combo?? or is it just me
Click to expand...

My 0.0002c thought: I've more than one S30V blade and a Kevin Wilkins F4 S90V one, coated with TiALN. I tried over time a bunch of combos, but up to now the best one is DMT complete set: Black, Blue, Red, Green.
My S30 blades are finished with Red on either edge and microbevel.
My S90 blade had been finished with Green on microbevel, leaving coating on the blade through the edge (but this is gonna be another story).
 
louisianacook said:
DMT makes a 120 grit diamond plate that really works well. Here are a few pics of it in action. It really made short work of the hollow grind on my Centofane 4.

After a few strokes.



After about 5 mins. the hollow grind was gone and the bevel was perfectly flat.



Finished Product.




I originally purchased this plate to work on a S30v chef's knife, but soon found that it really worked well on everything else too.
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Sweet Jumpin Jehosaphat! I have that exact model in my pocket, and I've been thinking about flattening it out. Two questions: 1) how much spine-to-edge distance did you lose by flattening it out (could be none, but that'd be difficult) and 2) have you calculated the final angle on that bevel?
 
M Wadel said:
are the V-carbides being torn out by the sm-rods and actually degrading the edge
Click to expand...

Yes, this will also happen no matter what you use to sharpen. However a more aggressive abrasive will do it to a lesser extent.

anyone else feel s30v and the sm is not really the best combo?
Click to expand...

Generally high carbide and fairly soft steels are difficult to hone on small contact surfaces as it is makes it very easy to form burrs.

-Cliff
 
M Wadel said:
anyone else feel s30v and the sm is not really the best combo?? or is it just me
Click to expand...

It's just you and Cliff. ;) If the relief grind/back-bevel is thin enough, S30V isn't a problem on the Sharpmaker.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Generally high carbide and fairly soft steels are difficult to hone on small contact surfaces as it is makes it very easy to form burrs.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

DMT 4" stones are to be regarded as "Small contact surfaces" for a 9.3cm blade? Just asking.
What's best way to check against burrs??
 
Difficult areas are rods and such as the contact is less than a mm wide so the pressure produced is very high even under low force. Burrs can be seen by eye if you examine the edge under light and rotate it a little. The edge will seem dark under the burr and reflect light off of the burr. A burr will also cause the sharpness to be uneven as it will shave more readily on one side than the other. In the extreme of this, a smooth steel creates an extreme deformation burr which will shave very well on one side but not on the other.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
1)Difficult areas are rods and such as the contact is less than a mm wide so the pressure produced is very high even under low force. 2)Burrs can be seen by eye if you examine the edge under light and rotate it a little. The edge will seem dark under the burr and reflect light off of the burr. 3)A burr will also cause the sharpness to be uneven as it will shave more readily on one side than the other. 4)In the extreme of this, a smooth steel creates an extreme deformation burr which will shave very well on one side but not on the other.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

I added numbers to your statements to make common ground.
1), 3) and 4) are quite clear to me.

Point 2) is not. Feel like a dumb but I feel like asking for more details when you say "The edge will seem dark under the burr and reflect light off of the burr."
S90V is a high carbide steel, thus prone to burring?

Huge thanks Cliff
 
Burrs form by a number of methods, the most common seen when honing is a deformation burr where the edge folds over because the pressure on the edge is too high and the cutting aggression too low - thus it deforms rather than be cut. Therefore you would predict for example that a loaded stone would be far more likely to induce a deformation burr than a clean one - which is indeed the case.

Take your hand and point your fingers straight out, now curl your fingers down to make an inverted "J". Put your hand under a lamp and rotate it around a little. You will notice a dark shadow under your fingers but of course your fingers themselves are well illuminated. Now look at the back of your hand and note there is of course no shadow. A deformation burr on a edge acts the same way.

-Cliff
 
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