Request For Discussion: Buying, Selling & Trading Guidelines

Buying, selling & trading here on BladeForums is an enjoyable experience for many of us. Although the vast number of transactions take place without a hitch, sometimes things don't always go as expected. It has been suggested a few times by various people that a set of guidelines for these activities might avoid some of the problems. Since I am one of the very few people who has actually gotten burned in a deal, I'm rather motivated to see this work.

I've drafted a set of guidelines & would like to invite everyone's comments. What I am suggesting is that these guidelines be incorporated into the FAQ section for the site. As the guidelines state, individuals would still naturally be free to spell out different terms and conditions for specific transactions. However, in the absence of a separate agreement, it would be expected that these guidelines will be followed.

I realize that no document can prevent all problems. However, I am hoping that it will clear up some of the misunderstanding that can arise, for example when a package is lost or damaged in transit.

Anyway, please have a look & let us know what you think. Once some consensus has been reached, hopefully Mike & Spark will incorporate it into the FAQ. TIA.

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Cheers,
Brian
AlleyCat.gif


He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
I don't want to make any decisions before we check out the legality of doing something like this...

I am aware of the recent number of "burnings" that customers have been experiencing in the Exchange forums, and we are investigating other measures to try to prevent this from happening.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Thanks for the link, Jackyl.

You're right, Dave, it is just common courtesy and common sense. However, in light of some incidents, I felt it needed to be said.

I can understand your desire for legal caution, Spark. You certainly don't want to create a situation in which BF could somehow be seen to have any responsibility or role in transactions between members.

Unless you object, however, I would like the discussion of the draft guidelines to continue. Even if it turns out that it would be unwise for BF to make them a formal part of the FAQ section, we could always call them the "Unofficial Guidelines..." and host them off site as needed. Buyers & sellers could then simply reference them in their transactions.


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Cheers,
Brian
AlleyCat.gif


He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
I don't have a problem with it being discussed - I just wanted to make it clear that we weren't going to make any decisions without looking over the legal aspects of it first.

Please feel free to flesh out the guidelines, suggestions, etc, I think that codifying recommendations is a good idea.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
It's unfortunate that what should be able to be done on a handshake has to have a set of rules drawn up, but if that be the case, I have no qualms with them as constructed by my good friend Brian.

Blues

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Live Free or Die

Some Knife Pix
 
It is sad that as a community we have to discuss such things, but it is a reality. I too think this information is just a common courtesy, but maybe some folks are raised with more decency than others. One thing that is helpful is to see whether other people have dealt with a particular person, and how their transaction went. If there were a way to search by user and see all comments left to that user that would be great. But with 6K members I'm sure that's not an easy task. I also don't know how much customization can be done in a UBB, but it seems fairly straightforward.

Can't we all just get along? lol

Brandon

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I've got the schizophrenic blues
No I don't
Yes I do...
 
I agree that a formal member feedback mechanism would be very helpful. Jackyl very generously maintains his <A HREF="http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum25/HTML/000349.html" TARGET=_blank>GREAT GUYS TO DEAL WITH...(List
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</A> but not being on the list doesn't imply that someone is not a great person to deal with.
cool.gif



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Cheers,
Brian
AlleyCat.gif


He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
Customizing the software is *not* an option.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Brian,

Looks good! Can't wait to see the discussion on it!

Depending on the mechanics involved in posting it, if it winds up being posted off BF and you want a couple of mirror sites, I have webspace available.

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I don't know it you want discussion here or not, but...

The only modification I'd make is regarding shipping charges - whoever is receiving the parcel should pay for the shipping. If I sell someone a knife, they may want it ASAP and they pay for the priviledge. If they choose to return it, for whatever reason, I'm not necessarily in a hurry to get it back, and I'd include appropriate shipping in my refund.
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Good job!

Nick

 
So far, looks good to me. If the content of the draft doesn't change radically for the worse then consider me signed up.
 
Man, does this really hit home, in the last month I've had two problems with dealings. First, a perspective client, through numerous e-mails, made arrangements for me to customize his Spyderco Rookie. I bought materials to do so, and after not recieving the knife for the work, I contacted him. He replyed that he'd gotten busy and forgotten about it and would mail it the next day. Three weeks later, I'm still waiting.
In the other case, there was a Commander offered that interested me. I contacted the individual and ended up making a deal for the Commander, a LaGriffe neck knife and a Sebenza for a new damascus sword. This deal was offered by the seller and I accepted it and told him I had to maneuver a few funds, but it was a go. To make a long story short he backed out and got irrate with rude name calling e mails when I called him on it. He would have been believable if he could have kept his lies straight. It's hard to believe problems the previous day would prompt a 9 AM status check to me, asking when we were going on with the arrangement.
I don't know if this incident belongs in GBU, but I have promised myself to e mail anyone I see answering his offerings and tell them how he is. I've done many trades and this was the first time I dealt with a jerk.

Jake Evans
 
Spark-

*not* and option due to a licensing agreement?

Brandon



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I've got the schizophrenic blues
No I don't
Yes I do...
 
Just a thought here. I think a refund would be in order if the item was not as described. However, I do not think that simply not liking it, or changing your mind is a valid excuse. For example, lets say I have a NIB Spyderco Endura. I offer to sell it, and somebody buys. They get the item, and although its NIB, lets say they dont like the clip design, I dont think the seller oughta have to refund for something like that, as they in no way mis-represented the knife. If things like that start happening, it'll be kind of like Wal-Mart, people will buy without giving much thought, then decide they shoulda paid thier rent instead and come up with all kinds of excuses to return the knife. It could also be that I get other people who want the knife, and I tell them its sold, then I get the knife back after I have turned down other offers. Hope that makes sense.

Richard
 
Customizing the software is not going to happen. It'd be throwing good money after bad and would cause more problems than it would solve, including upgrading and maintenance issues.

Changing the software is not an option.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
I don't know if you would want to put this on your list (maybe it is more of a courtesy problem), but it annoys me when people post lowball offers on the public for sale forums. If I am going to make a lowball offer, or receive one, I would much rather that take place through e-mail.
What do you think?
 
Brian, I think yo did a really fine job of laying out some basic guidelines for dealing here on the Forums.
I may not be the best one to judge, since I've never sold a knife, and I've only bought one, from you.
The vast majority of the people who deal here are honest and upfront, and value their reputation far more than any knife, and would have no problem agreeing to your guidelines.
It's the exceptions to the rule that cause the problem and make the GB&U Forum necessary. IMO you can't moderate or dictate morals. So, my guess is that you're preaching to the choir.
Would this set of rules have helped one bit in your deal that went bad?

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"Will work 4 Knives!"
Homepage: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=254126
 
Last thing, first -- I completely agree with Spark's position about not modifying the software. Once an end user modifies a program, they have made a long term commitment to continuing to do so.

Sorry to hear about your problems, Jake. My own bad experience prompted me to try to formalize the way most folks already conduct business.

Thanks for your kind words & your offer of webspace, Nick. I don't think I'll need it but I will keep your offer in mind if it looks like I might.

Back to the issue of guidelines, three issues have been brought up: 1) Who pays shipping charges if an item is returned? 2) Should buyers have the right to return an item simply because they change their mind or don't like it? 3) As a point of courtesy, should lowball offers be made off the public forums? It might help facilitate our discussion if we concentrate on these three issues for a while before moving on to others.

Starting from the bottom of the list, I think that it is a good idea for all offers, lowball or not, to be made off the public forum. I don't think we want to wind up with a very lengthy document, but I can certainly add something like this under Misc. What do others think?

With regard to the second question, I understand Richard's concern; however, specifying conditions under which returns may not be acceptable could be a slippery slope. What if a seller represents an item as NIB or, as happened to me, "mint" and then buyer disagrees with that description? An option could be to say that the right to return "for any reason" does not apply to NIB items. What do other folks think?

I think Nick makes a good point about shipping charges. In the way he suggests, the entire burden would not fall upon the seller. Opinions?



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Cheers,
Brian
AlleyCat.gif


He who finishes with the most toys wins.
 
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