Requesting: CS Black Sable review

[Artfully Martial]

I'm doing way better financially than I could have anticipated a couple months ago and I'm considering one of these....a review is necessary. Espicially since I'm unfamiliar with CS anyway.

 

[Walking Man]

You should really stay from it, since it's a BLATANT ripoff of a Brian Tighe knife. Also, someone recently did a review of the Hatamoto, which is in the same line, and said he was highly disappointed. I'll post a link.
http://www.knifeart.com/briantighe.html (some pics of Tighe's stolen design)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=364657
Hatamoto thread.
BEWARE OF COLD S-T-E-A-L

 

[Artfully Martial]

I see the resemblance, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here. I'm not a big fan of Cold Steel though. The hamamoto stuff does bother me....I'm kind of annoyed at how it seems like everything cold steel says about locks is that they're all the strongest in the world. But they're not the same genre of locks. The (lockback) on the sable is the strongest in the world, like the hamamoto (liner lock). That's illogical. They can't both be the strongest. And they developed neither. But they claim them like they're proprietary. Then on one of those two, I don't remember which, they say it's tougher than knives costing 3 or 4 times as much. That's a thousand dollar knife if we use the street price, as much as 1200+ on Cold Steel's website. Now, I've never seen a 1000 dollar production knife, and hope I never do, so I can't really confirm their claims. I guess I'm more concerned with (is it as tough as my 75 dollar D2 minigrip?)

But it IS beautiful.

No one seems to really know what the hell steels Cold Steel REALLY uses either....

First hand reviews would be welcome. I do NOT want to be the first one to give a bad review of this knife with 250 dollars less

 

[Walking Man]

I'm kind of annoyed at how it seems like everything cold steel says about locks is that they're all the strongest in the world. But they're not the same genre of locks. The (lockback) on the sable is the strongest in the world, like the hamamoto (liner lock). That's illogical. They can't both be the strongest. And they developed neither. But they claim them like they're proprietary. Then on one of those two, I don't remember which, they say it's tougher than knives costing 3 or 4 times as much. That's a thousand dollar knife if we use the street price, as much as 1200+ on Cold Steel's website. Now, I've never seen a 1000 dollar production knife, and hope I never do, so I can't really confirm their claims. I guess I'm more concerned with (is it as tough as my 75 dollar D2 minigrip?)

I'm not defending Cold Steel, but let me clear a couple of things up.
1st) I'm sure that some of Cold Steel's lockbacks are stronger that some $1000 folders, after all, many are gentlemen's knives, this is a completely unfair comparison
2) It's very possible those locks are propriatary, NOT the walker lock and lockbacks, but Cold Steel's variation of them. There might be something slightly different or unique about them (might be almost unnoticable unless you look hard or take it apart) that Cold Steel's pathetically claims is propriatary. Benchmade also has their own version of the linerlock, and they claim the same thing (or at least similar)
3) I believe if you look harder, you will probably read that Cold Steel says something like "the strongest lock of their type in the world" which might be true, especially if they are propriatary locks, so only Cold Steel uses their locks.
4) Read everything that CS writes VERY carefully. They rarely lie, but they they sure know how to twist the true.
5) Remember P.T. Barnum's most famous words......

 

[Walking Man]

From the CS website:
"To protect the fingers from the unintentional closure of the blade, the Black Sable™ has been fitted with Cold Steel’s® state of the art “rocker” lock. A highly refined locking mechanism, perfected by Cold Steel® over the last eighteen years, that relies on extra strong springs, super close tolerances and other secret refinements to make it equal, if not superior, in strength, to any other lock on the market."
It's not a lockback, it's a "rocker" lock. "Perfected" by Cold Steel. Need I say more here?

 

[Walking Man]

About the Hamamoto:
"Lock strength is absolutely critical in a knife like the Hatamoto™, that’s why we have equipped it with the most reliable leaf spring locking mechanism on the market. Made of Titanium and fitted to extremely close tolerances it has proven almost impervious to the stress and shock that would destroy a lesser knife costing even three or four times as much."

Again, they don't call it a liner or a walker lock, NO, it's their own special recipe.
Also, the don't say it's the strongest here, just the most reliable on the market.

 

[Artfully Martial]

Yeah, that's some stuff that does annoy me about CS. Not enough to seriously bother me though.

Come on guys, give me a black sable review!

 

[Walking Man]

Yeah, that's some stuff that does annoy me about CS. Not enough to seriously bother me though.
Come on guys, give me a black sable review!

LOL, It appears as though it is enough to bother everyone else.

 

[Laceration]

Buy one and tell us.

 

[DngrRuss1]

About the Hamamoto:
"Lock strength is absolutely critical in a knife like the Hatamoto™, that’s why we have equipped it with the most reliable leaf spring locking mechanism on the market. Made of Titanium and fitted to extremely close tolerances it has proven almost impervious to the stress and shock that would destroy a lesser knife costing even three or four times as much."

Again, they don't call it a liner or a walker lock, NO, it's their own special recipe.
Also, the don't say it's the strongest here, just the most reliable on the market.

If I remember correctly, the name Linerlock and Lockback are registered trademarks, while the basic type of lock mechanism is not. Patents often run out before trademarks do.

CS has taken the lockback, tuned it up and made it thier own, as well as the linerlock. Each is now extremely strong and under the names "rocker" and "leafspring".

BTW- the Black Sable is NOT a ripoff of the Tighe knife- it is a combination of Pursian-knife style introduced by CS with the Scimitar and a modified Tanto tip- also introduced by CS.

 

[BuckyKatt]

BTW- the Black Sable is NOT a ripoff of the Tighe knife- it is a combination of Pursian-knife style introduced by CS with the Scimitar and a modified Tanto tip- also introduced by CS.

I'm sorry, I have a very hard time believing that. The resemblance to Brian Tighe's design is far, far too blatant.

 

[4 Ranges]

Jerry Van Cook does a very favorable review of it on the latest issue of Tactical Knives.

 

[Walking Man]

BTW- the Black Sable is NOT a ripoff of the Tighe knife- it is a combination of Pursian-knife style introduced by CS with the Scimitar and a modified Tanto tip- also introduced by CS.

By writing the above, it makes me question whether you're even viewing the same knives or just trying to get someone to argue with you. It's about as clear as deionized water that they stole this design.

 

[Alpha Knife Supply]

If I remember correctly, the name Linerlock and Lockback are registered trademarks, while the basic type of lock mechanism is not. Patents often run out before trademarks do.

CS has taken the lockback, tuned it up and made it thier own, as well as the linerlock. Each is now extremely strong and under the names "rocker" and "leafspring".

BTW- the Black Sable is NOT a ripoff of the Tighe knife- it is a combination of Pursian-knife style introduced by CS with the Scimitar and a modified Tanto tip- also introduced by CS.

There are several points that need to be clarified.

1) Lockback is not trademarked

2) Trademarks do not run out if they are maintained

3) The Black Sable is clearly a knock-off of Brian Tighe's knife

4) CS did not introduce the the "modified tanto". Bob Lum was the first and CS at one time gave him credit.

Other than the points above your post is accurate.

 

[DngrRuss1]

So it seems more likely that CS would risk business and possible legal reprocussions by "ripping off" a popular custom designer rather than design a knife based on products in their own line-up already?

Wow, when bias applies, I guess it runs deep, huh? Ochum's Razor need not apply.

Chuck Bybee-
1- Perhaps you are right, I did say I was not sure
2- I know that, that is what I was saying
3- I do not agree, but that's not going to change the minds of those with a bias against the company. If one puts the Scimitar against the Black Sable, the similarities in basic design become clear.
4-ok, but CS was the first mass-producer of the tanto point, yet I don't hear anyone screaming "rip-off" when other companies make tanto knives or knives similiar to CS.

 

[BuckyKatt]

Why should it be so surprising that one knife company copies another design? It happens all the time. Look at Gerber's new Evo, which is obviously a copy of CRK&T's M16 series.

If one compares the Scimitar and Black Sable, you see a curved blade and a curved handle on each... and again, I'm sorry, but that's where the resemblance ends. You can't possibly be claiming that the Black Sable is more similar to the Scimitar than it is to Brian Tighe's design. If you are, then I can't wait to see where this thread goes.

 

[DngrRuss1]

Why should it be so surprising that one knife company copies another design? It happens all the time. Look at Gerber's new Evo, which is obviously a copy of CRK&T's M16 series.

If one compares the Scimitar and Black Sable, you see a curved blade and a curved handle on each... and again, I'm sorry, but that's where the resemblance ends. You can't possibly be claiming that the Black Sable is more similar to the Scimitar than it is to Brian Tighe's design. If you are, then I can't wait to see where this thread goes.

Funny how when other knife companies have similiar designs, the term is "copy", when it's CS, the term is "rip-off".

I am not saying that there are no similarities between the tighe knife and the Black Sable- what I am saying is that CS didn't rip-off the tighe knife. I know first-hand about the design of the knife and it's isnpirations. As I have stated on other threads, I am very framiliar with CS and it's staff. I have a few close friends in the company who I have spoken to about this issue. I tend to beleive them when they tell me about where the knife design (which has been floating around the company for several years) came from. I know these paople to be honest and have no reason to doubt them.

It's all too easy to throw out terms like "rip-off" without doing the slightest bit of research beyond first impressions.

 

[BuckyKatt]

Funny how when other knife companies have similiar designs, the term is "copy", when it's CS, the term is "rip-off".

Fair enough. I should have clarified: Gerber's Evo is also a ripoff, not a copy.

I still stand by my statement that Cold Steel's Black Sable is far too similar to Brian's design to be conincidental. I'll call it a ripoff, you can call it whatever you'd like. I don't want to get into a flamewar, so I'm done here. Take care.

 

[Walking Man]

It's all too easy to throw out terms like "rip-off" without doing the slightest bit of research beyond first impressions.

Why do you continue to argue when some very respected and knowledgable forumites have told you that this is clearly a RIP-OFF!!! Or a copy or whatever. You are entitled to your opinion but, you really need to quit doing this:

 

[Normark]

Hey Guys...

Artfully writes:

"But it IS beautiful. "

A Beautiful Knockoff is what it is..

I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole..
I wouldn't do that to Brian...

ttyle

Eric...