Requesting: CS Black Sable review

Walking Man said:
Why do you continue to argue when some very respected and knowledgable forumites have told you that this is clearly a RIP-OFF!!! Or a copy or whatever. You are entitled to your opinion but, you really need to quit doing this:
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You mean respected and knowledgable forumites like Daniel Koster (over 10,000 posts)? he said on another thread-
"As has been said by others - this is probably the only Cold Steel product I would consider buying. That it looks similar to a Tighe design is a compliment to Brian, not a ripoff. There are at least a half-dozen knifemakers out there making "Fowler Pronghorn Hunters" (which is an easily recognizable design) that aren't ripping off Ed's design. They just liked it so much, they wanted to try it for themselves. Some of them learned it from Ed himself. Not my cup-o-tea, but I would never dream of calling them ripoff artists."

So, since my post count is low, I am neither worthy of respect nor am I knowledgable?

Sounds like, from thisw and other threads, those who lambast CS don't like being called on the carpet regarding their posts. I know that I am not going to win over the CS haters- your opinion is too biased and not open for contradiction. Fine- but you'll pardon me if I do not lie down and just take it from those that i think are either misinformed, unswervingly biased, or just plain wrong.

As for it being a dead horse-
Are you saying that your word, and those who quickly and automatically agree with you, is to be the last and there is no room for discussion and discourse? Sorry- not going to happen. I don't like being told when to shut up, and I would venture that you don't either.

What's good for the goose...
 
Ok, I know I said I would stay out of this, but I gotta say:

My problem is that you assume that we all hate Cold Steel because we accuse them of using someone else's design. I don't hate Cold Steel. In fact, I have over a dozen of their products, from folders to fixed blades. Some of them are quite good for what you pay for them, and some aren't. Simply because I offer my honest assessment does not make me some crazy lunatic bent on turning the knife collecting community against a certain company. It only means that I say what I mean and I mean what I say. The fact that other members may say something that I don't agree with doesn't bother me, but a member attacking me for voicing MY opinion does, especially when they put words in my mouth and accuse me of bias based on such a small thing as using the word "copy" instead of "ripoff." I never accused you of anything, I simply expressed my differing view.

Ok, now I'm done. You guys have fun, and for God's sake, somebody give ArtfullyMartial the review he wants!
 
Hey Guys...

Theres also a difference of a knifemaker copying a style of another knifemaker, afterall thats the best form of flattery.

However a completely different thing when a knife Company side steps the approval process, giving credit where credit is do, and also the royalty process where clearly the design is the intellectual property of Brian Tighe.

In the meantime a company like CS could make millions of dollars off a design like this, while Brain sits back and watches..

Do you think it's an accident that the two designs are so similar ?

I don't!

I think the design department has a Brian Tighe Tighe Stick tucked in a drawer somewhere with tracing marks all around it's perimeter....

ttyle

Eric....
 
:D :cool:


Similar? Yes - very much so.

Copy? too hard for a dumb knifemaker (like me) to say...you guys be the judge.



Black Sable:

cs60bs.jpg



Tighe Stick:

ba04492.jpg




Similarities:

1 - upswept double grind on blade
2 - dropped handle
3 - finger choil
4 - overall shape (which, actually is characteristic of nearly every upswept folder)


Differences:

1 - Sable is a lockback instead of framelock/linerlock (Tighe)
2 - micarta scales on the Sable, sculpted integral on the Tighe
3 - dropped "guard" on the Tighe, plain ricasson on the Sable
4 - false edge on the Sable
5 - raised thumb stud/ramp on the Tighe
6 - "pistol-type" butt on the Sable, tapered butt on the Tighe



I'm not on either side of this argument. Count me out. I got better things to do with my time...

Whether they copied it or not is something the courts decide...not us. We just decide if we want to buy it or not. Brian is not being supported by our boycotting of the Black Sable. Should we forego purchases on all upswept folders?


What about Whiskers Allen and the Scale Release? Here's a guy who has accepted his lot and moved on. If I ever finish my scale release auto I will credit him with the design, but I highly doubt many others do. His stuff speaks for itself, just like Brian's. There is an obvious difference in quality and style.





I have a pending order for an upswept folding knife and y'all are making me very nervous!
 
For the naysayers out there, there was a thread (find it yourself, I'm not going to waste my energy) where someone called CS and asked them point blank why are they stealing Brian Tighe's designs, and they all but admitted it, giving the guy a handful of excuses. Now, I can't prove it's true, but the guy AFAIK has no reason to lie about it either.
Also, IF THERE'S ONE PERSON WHO can show another knife with a swept back blade and tanto point in a similar style, I'll shut up and give you the benefit of the doubt. In the meantime, I'm going stick to my guns.
 
Also, that isn't the only knife like that Brian has made. If you want something that looks a bit more like what CS ripped off, take a look here:
this is actually an earlier version of this knife.
TiBreaker1d.jpg
 
DngrRuss1 said:
Sounds like, from thisw and other threads, those who lambast CS don't like being called on the carpet regarding their posts. I know that I am not going to win over the CS haters- your opinion is too biased and not open for contradiction. Fine- but you'll pardon me if I do not lie down and just take it from those that i think are either misinformed, unswervingly biased, or just plain wrong.
.
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You know, I'm beginning to think either a) you are actually Lynn T. or b) you work for CS. I have no love nor hate of Cold Steel, I just call a spade what it is. And yes, you are beating a dead horse, and should just shut up about it, because neither you nor I are going to change anyone's opinion, and I'm sure others are getting sick of this very petty arguement. So why do I continue? Because I'm haveing FUN, and I enjoy rattling hotheads like yourself.
And one more thing, saying that your beating a subject to death, is not the same as telling you shut up. I was just saying the subject was getting old. Duh. Now, I'm telling to shut up. :D
 
DngrRuss1 said:
So it seems more likely that CS would risk business and possible legal reprocussions by "ripping off" a popular custom designer rather than design a knife based on products in their own line-up already?

Wow, when bias applies, I guess it runs deep, huh? Ochum's Razor need not apply.

snip.........

3- I do not agree, but that's not going to change the minds of those with a bias against the company. If one puts the Scimitar against the Black Sable, the similarities in basic design become clear.
4-ok, but CS was the first mass-producer of the tanto point, yet I don't hear anyone screaming "rip-off" when other companies make tanto knives or knives similiar to CS.
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DngrRuss1,
I also think you have a connection to Cold Steel. You've been here since Dec 2002 and every one of your 17 posts were in threads about Cold Steel. Ochum's Razor indeed.

You wrote about bias twice in your response to me. I am biased against Cold Steel because of what they've written. Prior to Cold Steel shooting themselves in the foot I bought lots of their knives. I currently own more than thirty of their knives.
STRIKE 1 = Cold Steel used to write AUS8 was one of the best steels in the world and they would not lower themselves to use anything less. A few years later they have knives made with 420 steel?!?!
STRIKE 2 = For years Cold Steel pointed to the liner lock as an example of a poor lock. A few years later they are releasing knives with a liner lock.
STRIKE 3 = In Riposte Lynn Thompson wrote how he was sickened by knife companies and knifemakers saying they have connections to military organizations. Now Cold Steel is doing the same thing.
YOU'RE OUT! Cold Steel proved they have no credibility.

You don't seem to want to understand the difference of custom knifemakers and knife companies. Custom knifemakers often make knives similar to the knives of the person who taught them. After a while most knifemakers go their own direction and attempt to achieve their own look. Some knifemakers ask if they copy a design from another knifemaker. Honorable knife companies pay royalties if they use a custom knifemakers design. Gerber and Cold Steel are knocking-off (copying, plagiarizing, etc) designs of custom knifemakers. Collectors have responded by staying away.

Item 4 is the same situation. You seem to want others to "scream rip-off" at other knife companies for making tanto pointed knives. However, it was Cold Steel who was copying Bob Lum's design. Should everyone "scream rip-off" at Cold Steel for copying Bob's tantos?

Now you know why I'm biased against Cold Steel and will not buy their knives. I also tell other people not to buy their knives. If Cold Steel decides to change their ways and publicly admit to their mistakes, I'll buy their knives. Until then, Cold Steel has no credibility or honor.
 
I did a little homework myself and googled his email address "wayoforient" and it turns out it's some sort of martial art training program, that just happens to be IN THE SAME AREA CODE AS COLD STEEL!
BUSTED!
And just like Cold Steel, you've just lost all credibility here.
Thank you and have a nice life. (or not)
 
LMAO!! :D :eek:


I am gettin my bucket of popcorn....:p
 
CUTS LIKE A KRIS said:
Has anybody asked Brian Tighe his opinion on the matter- if he has no problem with it why do you?
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Learn how to do a search, please:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336491&highlight=tighe+cold
.
Here is something that our dear friend Russell wrote in another post:
"Before anyone here questions how I will qualify my statements- I am very framiliar with CS, its staff, its practices, and its management. I really don't feel comfortable explaining further than that since I still have a relationship with them and I don't want them feeling like I am telling stories out of school."
.
Russell, since you have already admitted you are biased in this prior thread, you have no place in this argument. You fit in perfectly with CS and their questionable ethics.
 
My mistake- when I searched I came up with a "cannot display page" error. I thought that the question was valid since I saw nothing posted by Brian Tighe.

Thank you for informing me!
 
So, you've busted me on something that i have already admitted to, interesting line of logic here.

As for a bias, I never said that I was not bias in favor of CS. Apparently it is OK to have a bias against CS, but one in favor of it is a no-no. I understand that CS and it tactics have made them a "bad-boy" of the industry. I also happen to know and am close to, as I have already stated before, members of the staff of the company. I happen to know how they feel about the business and about their dedication to quality product. I know that when terms like "rip-off" and "cold steAl" are bandied about, they are not accurate and are insulting to my very hard-working friends. They may not pay much attention to it, but I do.

You don't like someone disputing your points, so you attack them instead of, perhaps, oh I don't know, maybe hearing what they have to say? If after informed debate, you still hold your opinion, then that holds much more intellectual weight then simply knee-jerking your way through life.

This is a common, and rather base tactic we see in modern politics. Words like "liberal" and "conservative" are demonized. If one comes from a position other than your own, they are automatically wrong, or in this case, "lose credability" since they have close working knowledge that you don't. Sorry, that doesn't hold water.

I have never said that CS is the be-all-end-all of knife companies. I have never said that all other makers are sh**. I have never attacked another knife maker, company, their staff, or their customers. I have never attacked another member of the forum, their affiliations, or their right to speak out. I, however, am being told to shut up by another forum member and that my opinion is not credible since I have a bit of inside information and an informed opinion about the company rather than being an armchair blowhard.

I said it before, I don't think that telling me to shut up will do much good. So keep on attacking me- I'm pretty good at fighting back.
 
DngrRuss1 said:
You don't like someone disputing your points, so you attack them instead of, perhaps, oh I don't know, maybe hearing what they have to say?
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DngrRuss1,

I responded to your points and I did not attack you. I stated my opinion that you were involved with Cold Steel which you have admitted. By admitting you have friends at Cold Steel you must also admit that you have an agenda in this thread and are biased.

How about responding to my points in post 30?
 
Chuck Bybee said:
DngrRuss1,

I responded to your points and I did not attack you. I stated my opinion that you were involved with Cold Steel which you have admitted. By admitting you have friends at Cold Steel you must also admit that you have an agenda in this thread and are biased.

How about responding to my points in post 30?
Click to expand...

I never said that you specifically attacked me- if you took my post that way, I apologize.

As for the agenda, yep- sure do have one. I have been a fan and user of the product for years. Genuinely like the staff I have met and am close to some. As someone stated pervoiusly, I have been a member of the forum for a few years and rarely posted, and always in favor of CS. Please note that my posts weren't just waving the CS banner, but were, in fact, responses to other negative and imho insulting posts and opinions that I thought should be addressed. There comes a point where lurking just isn't enough.

As to your questions- I thought you had read all my posts? :D I address points 1 and 3 here: http://bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3297911&postcount=55
55

sorry- not too hot at posting links-

As to point 2, I need to see LT and CS comments before I comment on them.
 
Daniel Koster said:
:D :cool:


Similar? Yes - very much so.

Copy? too hard for a dumb knifemaker (like me) to say...you guys be the judge.
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This pics may be a better comparison that Brian's titanium version:

cs60bs.jpg


airline_1859_79638921
 
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