Respect for this forum.

sunshadow said:
What bugs me is when you get a noob who has made less than 20 blades from raw steel to finished knife, latches onto a couple ideas and suddenly becomes the troll who has to argue about everything, starts pointless rhetorical threads, near as I can tell merely to see their name in phosphors and get their postcounts up, and develops an attitude like they own the darn place.

-Page

P.S. I agree with Nathan
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at the risk of sounding like another new guy with a big mouth... I do think our young sterling was a fair bit off side on this one, but to ban someone outright for being a jackass just once??? sounds a bit harsh to me. we all say and do things that are dumb on occasion, but if you were made to stop doing something every time you made a mistake, not many of us would be making many knives these days. I say, give the dumb ass another chance to fix himself... we all make mistakes. that's why they put erasers on pencils.
 
rustyrazor said:
at the risk of sounding like another new guy with a big mouth... I do think our young sterling was a fair bit off side on this one, but to ban someone outright for being a jackass just once??? sounds a bit harsh to me. we all say and do things that are dumb on occasion, but if you were made to stop doing something every time you made a mistake, not many of us would be making many knives these days. I say, give the dumb ass another chance to fix himself... we all make mistakes. that's why they put erasers on pencils.
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The reality is nobody is going to ban Sterling for being a jacka$$, and while he had a momentary lapse of etiquette he is not one of the recent noobtrolls who has helped drive some of the truly valuable experienced members off of this forum

-page
 
Unfortunately, it's the way of the Internet and Society today. I've been a member of hobby and trade forums since the late 90's. Even owed and ran a few. What Mr. Niro is talking about exist on every forum. I myself may be guilty of asking a question that has been answered a million times. I do read and bookmark stickies and useful post, but sometimes you still can't find the answer you're looking for.

Newbies just reflect Society anymore IMHO. They're impatient (I know I am) and they want the info NOW!! Who wants to read all those stickies and do a search for "the best steel to make a knife"? (being sarcastic there) Like I said before, every forum gets this. If I've seen one "Whats the best rifle for deer" or "Whats the best rod & reel combo for bass" and "What's the best trap for Coyotes", I've seen a million of them it seems. Most people don't want to take the time to read and research. Again, I've been guilty of that in the past and probably will be in the future but I do try and find the answer before asking. I hate waiting for a response! LOL

I'd also go as far as saying most of the ones that come off as rude were never taught manners growing up or taught how to interact and communicate with other people. With the me, me, me generation now, many are takers and not givers. It's that whole entitlement thing that's going on. Again, it's just a reflection of today's times and to be honest, it gets under my skin as well. That's why I've given up many forums and only focus on a few that I really like. But just be patient Mr. Niro. Most of these type of people will leave the forums forever when they realize it takes a while to make a good knife. It's just too much time and trouble for a lot of them.

Now playing the Devils Advocate...

Now, as a newbie to this hobby/industry myself, I must say, many of the answers that are given can be downright confusing! For example, if I ask how to heat treat 1095 to get a decent knife, I'll get 12 different responses from 10 different people! For someone who doesn't have a clue or just getting started, that can lead to some major hand wringing. I've learned over the years you just have to shoot for a happy medium. Dismiss the stuff toward the bottom that will tell you to just 'get her red hot and dip it in motor oil" and then dismiss the anal ones that will tell you "heat to 1476.8 then soak for 3 minutes 39 seconds in your Heat Treat Oven for every millimeter of thickness then quench in Parks #50 that is heated to 127.3 degrees and hold quench for 11.421 seconds or until temperature of knife blade is 924.43 degrees. Remove from quench and shake it 3 times to the West, 2 times to the North and twirl it 4 revolutions facing East".

Also, the searches on some forums are pretty poor. Not all are coded the same. Plus, some people just don't know or understand how to word a search phrase so they may not be getting the same results as others. One may ask "What's the best grinder to get started with" while another will ask "Best grinders for beginners". If you put both of those phrases into the search box above, you'll get totally different results. Yeah, it annoys me to see the same questions asked over and over, but it's a public forum, it's gonna happen!
 
Sterlinghaney25 said:
Screw the questions when did this become a rant and raves forum?? I don't see a problem with anyone asking questions if you are tired of reading them don't open the damn post. In other words, get bent.
P.S.
Happy holidays
Sterling
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Sterling,

I think the issue here is that lots of people are asking very basic questions without taking the time to read up on the thoughtful detailed answers put together in response to the same question having been asked again and again. It's reasonable for a beginner to read the posts directed at beginners before posting questions.

As I wrote for a sticky in another forum:

The folk answering questions here are volunteers. Nobody is making them answer our questions, and the novelty wears off after answering the same question five or six times. Respect their time by searching for the answers before asking. Read the Frequently Asked Questions, search the forum, and search the internet [http://www.google.com] before posting your question.

When asking a question, be clear and specific, and include information on what you've tried so far. "How do I quench?" is not a good question because it would take a couple of book chapters to answer. It only takes a few minutes to write a much more specific and answerable question like "I am hot-forging a 4 inch drop-point fixed-blade knife from 1/8 inch 1095. I am quenching in a home-made brine solution after heating to a bright red-orange for 10 minutes and am noticing some warping. I found some discussion on the beginner's forum of warping due to putting the knife flat into the quench. Putting the knife in edge-first reduced the warping, but that's still warping along the edge, particularly at the tip. What might be causing the warping and how can I reduce it?"
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Tait


p.s. I hope you meant "In other words, don't get bent" - if you really meant "get bent", I'll be happy to ignore you in the future.
 
The search function on this forum blows, a site search on google is much better.

Speaking for myself only -

I come here because I am really excited about a new skill that I want to learn more about. I've read the stickies and the Counts post many times, but that doesn't mean I might not ask a question already answered. Not because I want to disrespect anyone or waste their time, but more because I am excited and want to discuss it with someone else that is excited about making knives and unfortunately I don't have anyone IRL that really is.

Sure it's a little reflection on the coddling, and impatient nature of today's society, but mostly it's about wanting to share something with others and I just don't see how that's disrespectful.

Finally I don't think it's fair to pin all this on a little monkey business.
 
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I think knifemakers with over 30 years of professional experience should have "special powers" on the forum... same as moderators. :)

That would cut down on some of the noob lip, and make this place more appealing to the really experienced makers like me. :)
 
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Tai Goo said:
I think knifemakers with over 30 years of professional experience should have "special powers" on the forum... same as moderators. :)
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I've been wondering recently if this subforum wouldn't be better utilized with a "minor league/hobbiest" and "the bigs" categories.
 
I run an airgun forum and it is a rough an tumble speak your mind type of place where there is a ton of information but if you act like a Asshat you will get dogpiled into submission. It does not have a lot of rules but does have one I enforce....."If a question is asked you can do one of 3 things 1. Answer the question 2. Ignore the question 3. Post a link to the answer the question" But never scold or complain about the question being asked. Not every post or thread needs to meet the approval of certain members.

New members are the life blood of a forum and provides growth, discussion and interest. If a forum is mainly a place for Old Timers to hang out and socialize the forum will wither and come to a crawl because you have already said everything there is to be said.

If a newbie asks a question no one wants to answer then on a busy forum like this one it rolls off the first page in a day.

Think of it this way. When you go to church they do not say "Stop asking about Jesus, just read the bible, we have answered and discussed this topic a thousand times" :) People at church are excited to discuss religion because they like to share the good news to poor lost souls :)
 
OK I understand how some of you are feeling because some days it doesn't seem worth opening the page for the content.

Maybe its time for a newbies section. Where the newbies go to ask that same old dumb question and the old dogs go to impart their knowledge, (if they so choose)!

I always look at this situation this way, I try to answer a question in a respectful manner. I done construction from the time I was 14 yrs. of age and no matter how dumb I might have thought a question was about some aspect of construction, I always tried to answer that question in a way that the person I was answering the question for, would learn something from my answer! (Because you know if I think about it, I didn't know the answer to the question once upon a time either)!

On the respect issue, just stop right before you hit that enter key.......................... and think, is this the way I would like to have some one answer me.


I am too old now to be anything but a noob in the knife business, but I look at it like this, when you get to old to learn then you might as well be dead!

There are things at 54 I am still learning about construction, granted not as many as their used to be but I try never to have a closed mind when it comes to learning a little knowledge. I used to tell my guys on the job if you have an idea on how to do something differently, "put it on me"! However if I have tried your idea in the past and I know it don't work or won't work as well as my way then............well we ain't going to be doing it your way!

When I first started making knives I tried to learn as much as I could by research. There has been an occasion or two where I researched and or tried something myself and needed some first hand knowledge from a more experienced knife maker and I got shot down by some for asking a question. Some times you just have to have a thick skin. I found out when I first got into forums on the internet that it is just like a big slice of life. You will meet good people and you will meet the occasional a$$. It doesn't do a bit of good to get into a pissing contest with someone as you are just lowering yourself to their level. There are always people on these sites that think they know something about everything, when in fact they know little about anything!

I always try to remember this respect is earned. I will say this. If you will notice that the first thing that Frank did was to come out and reply with respect too Sterling's post. To me that says a lot in itself!!!!!!!!
 
I think the reason so many of the big name makers have left is because it's like a famous gunslinger walking down main street Tombstone back in the old days... Every punk kid with a gun (or computer in this case) wants to be the one to shoot you down and make a name for himself.

It's not so much the repetitive questions to blame, as the jealousy.
 
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I take back what I said earlier... I have another idea what to do with that eraser after sterling's last post. amazing how much of a tough-guy you can be sitting at home (probably in your mom's basement) typing away in front of the computer in your star wars pajamas. good riddence.
 
Please let Sterling fade away....... quotes and comments only add to the problem and reflect poorly on you. You can retract if you wish. He is being dealt with.
 
From the traffic these threads always generate, it seems that more folks here are interested in watching a scrum or witnessing a meltdown than learning about knifemaking anyhow. Maybe it should just be relgated to a subforum in the Whine & Cheese section if we are all going to judge the next guy for what he brings to the table.
 
To Sterling........................... Dude what is your problem? :eek:


I saw posts that took off on both sides of the issue but somehow I don't think that's what you saw!
Using the F bomb and posting what you did is not only disrespectful to all but you do nothing but degrade yourself!

I think this forum may be the least of your problems!:surprise:
 
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I personally think this should have been in "around the grinder" but the registered users cannot access that subforum. Some of the most respected makers are registered users.
 
Not new to the forums, but new to this section. I've always been fascinated with knives since I was a little boy and my grandpa used to pull out his Case to cut the tip off his cigar and whittle on a piece of wood. I think this (and many other sites) are a great reference. I've been reading for about a year now off/on about the knife making process from just using files to quality grade stock. There are so many different process and ways to go about things, as well as opinions, that sometimes it's impossible to nail down the proper path. This is something that will only come from trial/error and experience and not something you can just put down as bullet points and "boom", you have a professional quality product. Guys like me, new to the game, are going to have questions that a search can't answer because a lot of times we are not exactly sure what we are asking about .. weather it be lack of terminology or just excuse me.. ignorance of the trade. But I think that is why we are all on here.. to help each other out and give guidance. Sure, if there are 4 "what grinder should I get" questions in a row.. yes, that is ridiculous. The great thing about forums is that you have the choice to answer a question and help, or skip it and move on to the next. I try to help people on forums when I can. If I can steer someone clear of something that I've run across, I've done my part in helping. At the same time I learn "TONS" every time I log in and start reading. So I appreciate all the help when I ask a question, and appreciate others asking questions b/c it may be something that corrects me on what I was doing wrong. Just a noob's perspective.

Agreed, name calling should not be tolerated. Opinions are opinions.. we all have them.. voice yours but don't knock others.
 
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