Resurrecting O1 heat treat?

mete said:
Stacy, I missed the 5-10 seconds too. For Chiro it's back to the tutorials to learn about soaking and what happens to the carbides etc.
Click to expand...

I saw the 5-10 seconds thing at first and thought it was for the normalizing.
and missed too later in the post...I still don't understand why all the normalizing? :confused: :)
 
Okay, here's an update: I clay coated, then heated to critical, kept it there about a minute (very impatient at this point), dumped it in ATF and let it cool without removing it. File skated, but still not a real nice temper line or anything. So, I think we figured it it. I'm going to try it all over again with a fresh piece of steel, do it right from the get go, and that should do it. Thanks for the help!
 
Chiro75 said:
Okay, here's an update: I clay coated, then heated to critical, kept it there about a minute (very impatient at this point), dumped it in ATF and let it cool without removing it. File skated, but still not a real nice temper line or anything. So, I think we figured it it. I'm going to try it all over again with a fresh piece of steel, do it right from the get go, and that should do it. Thanks for the help!
Click to expand...

why not the 5 min's Steve???
and I'd say your clay is not thick enouph where you want the hamon back to the spine.

and what are you using for clay that drys that fast??? :confused:
edited to add..
if the spine is now hard also you'll know for sure the clay was not thick enouph.. ;)
 
why not the 5 min's Steve???
Click to expand...
Because I'm impatient and I'm not going to sell this thing, anyway, so I'm just making sure I can get the steel to harden before I put more work into it, if that makes sense.

The clay I am using is furnace cement that tolerates up to 2000°F heat. It's awesome stuff. I've used it on all my clay coated knives for the last two years and I've never had a problem with it. It's sticky, and it dries very quickly, it doesn't need to be wired on, and it doesn't pop off when you put it in the forge. I like it! I'm not going to put more work into this sthing because it's been through too much and I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. I am going to do the whole thing in 3/16" once more, starting fresh and doing everything right from the get go. Then we'll see!

As for soaking at critical, I was always under the impression that you quench right when you hit critical temp. I think Mete is right that I do need to go back and look at a few things! I've never had any problems with knives I've sold, so I must not be doing things TOO wrong! ;)
 
you'll find as you step up in the steels you'll find little things like this
as the steels get more complicated

not to be sarcastic :( but are you reselling to customers.?
not all of them will tell you if there is a problem, you have to ask some of them and as the price goes up they'll expect more also..

if you don't mind me asking :) what brand is you're
furnace cement?
 
not to be sarcastic but are you reselling to customers.?
Click to expand...
Yes, to customers. Keep in mind this is my first use of O1, first use of 3/16" steel. Before this I've always used 1/8" 1084 or 1095, which have not been a problem for me. Nice temper lines, nice hardness, good performance. I'll start with a fresh piece of O1, hold it at critical for five minutes, quench in ATF, and then see what happens. I'm not even real sure what to expect from a hamon in O1, to be honest, but working with a fresh piece of steel that hasn't been through so much will probably help! :D
 
Chiro - I dont really see where the stock thickness would make that big of a difference. Keep in mind your blade edge should be similar no matter if you use 1/8" or 1/2" steel. I get a nice hammon on 0-1 but its a different HT method all together. Just go slow heating the steel and be sure its hot enough. Then be sure to let cool enough also.

Let us know what happens. Did you etch the blade so you can start learning to read what the etch can tell you?
 
Steve
also to add..
O1 is made to even out it's own HT
you won't get a funky scroll type hamon with it...

Brian when I mentioned thickness it was to convey the residual heat retained in it's spine and choil
 
Chiro,
If you want good temper lines stick with the 10xx steels. The composition of o-1 is such that it makes a poor choice for such knives. The best temper lines I have seen are of steels even simpler than 10xx. Just iron and carbon.
You just have to make those yourself.
Del
 
delbert
am I wrong to think 10xx is
Just iron and carbon :confused:

some stuff I've dug up from my pages..

Note: Alloying elements are in weight percent, XX denotes carbon content.
10xx Basic plain carbon steels
11xx Plain carbon steel with high sulfur & low phosphorous (Resulferized)
12xx Plain carbon steel with high sulfur & high phosphorous
13xx 1.75 manganese
23xx 3.50 nickel (series deleted in 1959)
25xx 5.00 nickel (series deleted in 1959)
31xx 1.25 nickel & 0.60 Chromium (series deleted in 1964)
33xx 3.50 nickel & 1.50 Chromium (series deleted in 1964)
40xx 0.20 - 0.25 Molybdenum
41xx 0.50 - 0.95 chromium & 0.12 - 0.30 molybdenum
43xx 1.83 nickel, 0.50 - 0.80 chromium & 0.25 molybdenum
44xx 0.53 molybdenum
46xx 0.85 or 1.83 nickel & 0.23 molybdenum
47xx 1.05 nickel, 0.45 chromium & 0.20 - 0.35 molybdenum
48xx 3.50 nickel, & 0.25 molybdenum
50xx 0.40 chromium
51xx 0.80 - 1.00 chromium
5xxxx 1.04 carbon & 1.03 or 1.45 chromium
61xx 0.60 or 0.95 chromium & 0.13 - 0.15 vanadium
86xx 0.55 nickel, 0.50 chromium & 0.20 molybdenum
87xx 0.55 nickel, 0.50 chromium & 0.25 molybdenum
88xx 0.55 nickel, 0.50 chromium & 0.35 molybdenum
92xx 2.00 silicon
93xx 3.25 nickel, 1.20 chromium & 0.12 molybdenum (series deleted in 1959)
98xx 1.00 nickel, 0.80 chromium & 0.25 molybdenum (series deleted in 1964)


Tool Steels
W Water hardening
S Shock-resisting
O Oil-Hardening
A Air-hardening
D High-carbon, high-chromium
H Hot-work
H1 - H19 Chromium base
H20 - H39 Tungsten base
H40 - H59 Molybdenum base
T Tungsten based "high-speed"
M Molybdenum based "high-speed"
P Mold steel
L Low-alloy
F Carbon-tungsten
 
There's a little Manganese in it too, though I guess not as much as the 13XX steel.
 
10XX is carbon and iron.There may be trace elements.
Steve (and any others that want to know), The reason you have to hold the steel at critical is to allow the carbides time to dissolve.In high alloys with lots of chromium and vanadium if can take 45 minutes.In simple alloys like O-1 it still takes a couple of minutes.Think of this example - Sugar dissolves in water-OK so far.Now,If you dump a cup of sugar into a gallon of hot water it dissolves in a few minutes (without stirring),But,if you dump in a pound of sugar,it may take an hour to dissolve.Same goes for steel with alloy carbides.10XX steel has no alloys except carbon,so you can heat it to critical,and once it is uniformly heated through,you can quench and it gets hard,thus being more forgiving to those in a hurry.That is why I tell newbies to learn on 1095 or some other 10XX.5160 ,with only 1% chromium ,has a very soluble mix,so it hardens fairly easily,too.However,sooner or later you will rush the steel too much and it won't harden properly.
As in making love,the end result may be the same,but the process is better if you take your time.
Stacy
 
I didn't think I'd be able to get as nice of a hamon with O1, based on pics of Brian's knives (not that they're bad, but the temper line is wider and looks totally different than on 1084 or 1095), but I should get SOME kind of temper line! Today is the day. Light patient load, so I'm going to head home after the morning session and do a couple things:
1) Cut a small piece of my 3/16" O1 material, grind a little off, heat treat it like I'm supposed to and see what shows up. This is to prove to myself that I have O1. I read every O1 heat treating thread I could find and I can't really say I feel like I was messing up badly enough to get the results I was getting unless the steel is just trashed.
2) If that doesn't work, I'm going to see if someone wants to check my work and either prove that I'm an idiot or back up the hypothesis that this might not be O1 steel. I'd send them some of the steel and let them screw with it and see what happens, if they want.
If it does work, then it'll be business as usual.
 
Steve,
Send me a little.........I can try it the way I HT and see what I get. Even the knife that you say is trashed. I'd like to see what I can do with it just for S*** & giggles ;)
 
this is O1
I think it would have looked cleaner with-out the double quench
kith2005m-1.JPG
 
Brian, you're on. It's a mess because of when I beat it with the file (the edge suffered a little), but I wouldn't mind keeping one of my own knives. Or really, if you can resurrect it and like it, you can keep it. I will try the fresh "O1" first and if that goes, then we at least know the steel isn't mismarked. One step forward, two steps back! The story of my knifemaking life...
 
nice and clean Dan. Here is one of my cleanest to date.
Yep...here are the dirty hands again ;)
mine.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top