Rethinking my flash light purchases.

[Fonly]

Hey guys, I have been going through ALOT of pictures on-line, looking at different lights, beat shots, flood and such and I've come to some suprising conslusions.

I first wanted to start by saying, all of these photo's are NOT mine, they belong to many other sites and people, just redirecting them to show some of you.

First up is my latest conclusions on the next purchases in the flashlight department. I was thinking I wanted to get another fenix for an EDC light, but after looking at a few beam shots, im pretty sure its going to be a surefire E2DL. I am Impressed with the out put of the light compared to Fenix's TK models.

Surefire First, now its says its a e2dl SMO, what does that mean?

Now TK11.

Now TK10.

I was under the impression that my TK10 was a better buy over the E2DL, but now Im not so sure.:foot:
The TK11 is the clear winner in both, but with these lights both using 750mah 123a's, its amazing how much the orange peal reflector has an effect on the beam.

The TK10 Specs.
Cree Premium (Q5) 7090 XR-E LED with lifespan of 50,000 hours
• Two modes of output, selected by turning the bezel:
Turbo Mode: Constant 225 Lumens, 1.5 hours
General Mode: Constant 60 Lumens, 10 hours

• Highly efficient focusing head - throws beam over 200 meters
• Digitally regulated output - maintains constant brightness
• Low battery indication system
• Uses two 3V CR123A lithium batteries

E2DL Specs.
Max Output: 5/120 lumens*
Runtime: 76/1.9 hours*
*low/high settings
Length: 5.40 inches
Weight: 3.70 ounces
Battery: Two 123A lithiums

Now, just by specs and price wise, the Fenix looks like the winner, right?
But as the next few photos show, its not what you would think.

Surefire at 100 meters.

Fenix TK10 at 100 meters.

TK11.

Now, I realise the TK models have more spill, but ,man that surefire can kick it huh?

Juts a couple more at 250 meters.

In the end, I find it very surpirsing how much Surfires 120 lumen output can be that bright compared to Fenix's 225 lumen output, mabye were not actually getting all we thought.
As I understand it, surefire actually rounds down when they put a lumen output for their lights, where as Fenix I would assume are rounding up? Many think the Fenix lights arent actually 225 lumens, im starting to think it my self.

What do you guys think?
Have any of you done some testing and found similar results?
I'm really starting to wonder whats really the best buy.....

 

[Echo63]

lumens measure the amount of light coming out the front of the torch, but doesnt measure how it comes out of the torch

quick demo, go outside, turn on the hose.
then put your thumb over the end of the hose, there isnt quite as much water coming out, but its going further. - thats whats happening here

you are right with the surefire vs fenix lumens though, the fenix is probably 170ish out the front, whereas the surfire will average 120 out the front, over its stated runtime - so it might start at 140 and end at 100 - over its hour runtime = 120 surefire lumens)

the SMO means the light has a smooth reflector, like the OP on the TK10 means "orange peel" for the texturing on the reflector

you probably wouldnt see much difference between the lights in the real world - any of the three would be a good choice, and one of the Fenixes takes 18650 rechargeables i think - the lights i use/edc all run rechargeables

 

[baldtaco-II]

TK11

Turbo Mode: 225 Lumens 2.7 hours (one 18650 Li-ion battery)
1.5 hours (two CR123A batteries)
General Mode: Constant 60 Lumens
12 hours (one 18650 Li-ion battery)
10 hours (two CR123A batteries)

 

[BushcraftBrainTrust]

The Fenix lights have a lot more spill then the Surefire does. I think having a lot of spill is useful in many everyday applications. I have a Fenix P2D as my EDC and carry a Surefire G3 with a Malkoff M60 drop-in (235+ lumens) in my Maxpedition Jumbo and I love both.

 

[Millhouse]

If throw is important to you, the Surefire E2DL is a winner. The Fenix TK10/11 use conventional reflectors. The E2DL uses a TIR lens which focuses the light to throw further. So whilst the Fenix's do produce more light, it is what you do with the light that is important.

 

[fleegs]

I think Fenix uses the lumens at the emitter and does not account for losses (reflector, lense, efficiency). Surefire measures the actual lumens out the front. The beams on these will be very different due to reflector versus optic.

If you plan to use the light a lot then research the 18650 battery setup. Great capacity. They have ones with button tops now too.


rob

 

[Diomedes Industries]

I honestly don't see why we need SUCH bright flashlights.

I was given a Fenix Tk-10 by my best mate - and I love it. However, it is retarded bright and heavy for a PSK or even backpacking.

I will likely pick up a smaller model for backpacking use.

I think you are chasing the wind.

TF

 

[Bushman5]

TK10 heavy?

here is my EDC:

L to R: Fenix TK11 225 lumens, flood pattern, Surefire 8AX Commander (incandescent) 120 lumens flood pattern, Fenix P1D-CE5 180 lumens flood pattern, Pelican 7060 LAPD 130 lumens pencil beam/spot pattern. fresh charged batts in all: distance to wall 100 feet.

Fonly, what do you find yourself using your light for? brighter is better in my opinion, you can look across a river to the other side, or down a trail further, or for alerting other people a ways away, so i prefer 200+ lumens (cant wait to get my 4500 lumen HID Microfire). Or are you just using it for reading in a tent at night? 100 lumens is adequate for that, and your well covered with your TK10 on low setting.

either way, you cant go wrong with a good selection of lights in your pack, you cargo pants pockets and you jacket pockets. A couple of low beam lights, a couple of high beam throwers, and a searchlight, all good.! I'm a strong believer in have multiples of knives and tools. Different lights for different needs

 

[Fonly]

either way, you cant go wrong with a good selection of lights in your pack, you cargo pants pockets and you jacket pockets. A couple of low beam lights, a couple of high beam throwers, and a searchlight, all good.! I'm a strong believer in have multiples of knives and tools. Different lights for different needs

That is the way I see.

After I thought about this last night, Im just under the impression that the E2DL actually puts around 150-170 lumens, but even at that brightness, I dont see much of a difference between fenixs 225 from Surefires (rated) 120 lumen light, aside from spill.

I also like my lights to have alot of kick, and just from having the TK10, I still want something brighter!
But the TK10 does have some good kick to it as well. I know the testing I have done with the, light has been most impressive. I have lit-up small saplings a 200 meters with out problem, but man.

At an afordable price, is there any thing that can compete with Fenix?
Olight?

 

[BushcraftBrainTrust]

I honestly don't see why we need SUCH bright flashlights.

I was given a Fenix Tk-10 by my best mate - and I love it. However, it is retarded bright and heavy for a PSK or even backpacking.

I will likely pick up a smaller model for backpacking use.

I think you are chasing the wind.

TF

Talfuchre, you may want to look at the Fenix P2D. It weighs 38 grams vs 136 for the TK10 (excluding batteries) and has output of 12, 55, 107 and 180 lumens. It also has an available option for $5 for a light diffuser that I use for a camp lantern.

https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_65&products_id=361
https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_38&products_id=339

TK10 heavy?

here is my EDC:

L to R: Fenix TK11 225 lumens, flood pattern, Surefire 8AX Commander (incandescent) 120 lumens flood pattern, Fenix P1D-CE5 180 lumens flood pattern, Pelican 7060 LAPD 130 lumens pencil beam/spot pattern. fresh charged batts in all: distance to wall 100 feet.

Fonly, what do you find yourself using your light for? brighter is better in my opinion, you can look across a river to the other side, or down a trail further, or for alerting other people a ways away, so i prefer 200+ lumens (cant wait to get my 4500 lumen HID Microfire). Or are you just using it for reading in a tent at night? 100 lumens is adequate for that, and your well covered with your TK10 on low setting.

either way, you cant go wrong with a good selection of lights in your pack, you cargo pants pockets and you jacket pockets. A couple of low beam lights, a couple of high beam throwers, and a searchlight, all good.! I'm a strong believer in have multiples of knives and tools. Different lights for different needs

Bushman5, very nice collection of lights you have. I think Bushman5 is right that you need redundancy in your lights and you don't need to carry a lot of extra weight to have that redundancy. I have a P2D in my pocket, a County Comm Mini LED on the sternum strap of my pack, an E01 in my FAK and a Surefire G3 or 6p Defender in my BOB or pack.

Fonly, what do you plan on using this light for?

 

[Diomedes Industries]

BBT,

Thanks so much for that. I was debating some of them - and I think I will pick that up. Plus the make a head strap for it!

NICE!




Heavy for a backpacker that is counting ounces. It is HEAVY when you have to carry it miles and miles and all it does is make light.

TF

 

[kgd]

I honestly don't see why we need SUCH bright flashlights.

I can't say I understand the flashlight fetish that much either. Then again, I can relate to knife fetishes, but flashlights just don't really do it for me. I guess those spot demo's are kind of the equivalent of our sharpness tests

I do appreciate the additional functionality of LED lights nowadays though. I've replaced all my mag-lights with the LED upgrades. I don't really see any need to replace these guys with the exception that I really like to have a headlamp when using a flightlight for work.

 

[koyote]

I honestly don't see why we need SUCH bright flashlights.

I was given a Fenix Tk-10 by my best mate - and I love it. However, it is retarded bright and heavy for a PSK or even backpacking.

I will likely pick up a smaller model for backpacking use.

I think you are chasing the wind.

TF

I agree, and not. I'm such a difficult person. For the past 3 years I have had a super low end brinkmann 3xAAA rubber coated light, which came in a set with a red/white selectable headlamp that is AIMABLE, and an el-cheapo Coast brand mini torch that runs off of 3 watch batteries. I find that the brinkmann 1watt LED is just about right for in camp an dbackyard use, and that the headlamp is near perfect. The mini fits in an extra pocket in my cell phone pouch and is handy to have around, but I could easily fit a nitecore D10 in the pouch, and the Coast is pretty weak.

ALL OF THEM work fine for in close work, power outages, and the brinkmann flashlight for backyard varmint spotting. If I have any complaints they are:

that the coast, while the batteries last a long time (and 2 sets of spares flatpacks into a car holder in same phone pouch), is a half inch too short and just has no throw at all. But it's my low power light, so that's actually okay.

The brinkmann flashlight could use some output level selections, and the pattern is a bit weak beyond 20 feet, it's not a good hunting spot.

The headlamp - while I'd like it to be a bit more compact, just flat out works. I can't even argue the AAA cells, since I use lithium throw aways in that one am only on my third set. And I use this thing fairly often. As a headlamp, being aimable, having a red LED option, using AAA cells, I have ZERO complaints with it and can't honestly find another, presumably higher quality, headlamp that beats it.

For the rest, sure- I *want* something that will use 2xAA cells to let me help someone 20 yards away read a book at night, but the truth is that what I've got is FAR better than the angle head military surplus lights I grew up with.

Still, I'll probably pick up the fenix $15 single AA mini light at some point, and eventually find something meaty enough to replace the brinkmann flashlight, but only if it runs on AA cells.

But one of those superhot multiple lithium million volt lights would come in handy for night hunting.

 

[BushcraftBrainTrust]

BBT,

Thanks so much for that. I was debating some of them - and I think I will pick that up. Plus the make a head strap for it!

NICE!




Heavy for a backpacker that is counting ounces. It is HEAVY when you have to carry it miles and miles and all it does is make light.

TF

They just came out with a headband for them that hold 2 lights or a light and some spare batteries. I'm thinking about picking up one.

https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?cPath=27_38&products_id=645

 

[CSG]

As far as brightness, I've got a Gladius Night Ops that, based on the numbers, may not be as bright as some but last night I had to go out to check the stock tank in the pasture and was impressed how bright this light was and how much I appreciated the beam. Like most of the better lights the beam is controllable but for last night brighter was better.

The Fenix lights with their regulated output (or any light with the same) makes getting something that's super bright smart so it's there if you need it. On a survival/wilderness forum I would think everyone would get that.

 

[DocArnie]

I honestly don't see why we need SUCH bright flashlights.

I agree that the importance of brightness is often overrated, as well as distance. A keychain light with a smooth beam is by far the most useful flashlight for my tasks. I use a Peak Matterhorn but I also recommend the Fenix E01, which isn't as good as the Peak, but it's cheaper and also makes a great gift for friends and family.
That being said, I have an old Nuwai QIII and a Fenix TK10 and they're great for urban environments, where I get from very bright places (buildings, street lights) to very dark places (eyes can't adapt quickly enough).
I bought the TK10 as an emergency light for signaling in the dark and for around the house, when I get outside to check something out (fighting cats etc.).

 

[raylaconico]

I use my photon light more than anything and I don't even use it at it's brightest setting. It never leaves my neck. I also have a Fenix PD20 that I don't use as much and have never needed the turbo mode. For doing the usual tasks in the dark, all I really need is the lowest setting. It's nice to have all that power but it's really too much for the usual tasks. It actually hurts my eyes.

 

[chris in mo]

I think you are putting way to much emphasis on the manufacturers lumen rating. What I see form the pictures is a much tighter beam pattern on the Surefire vs a wider flood effect with the Fenix lights. As stated earlier the lumen ratings are not all that telling on what a lights beam is going to look like. I thought the lights in the pics you posted were pretty comparable in throw in that they all seemed about as bright at the same distance with a difference in spill. Build quality goes to Surefire as their lights are build darn tough but Fenix is an awfully good light for the money!

I own both Surefire and Fenix thought not the Fenix in the above comparison. I like a smaller light for EDC so I can drop it in my pants pocket. I carried the P2 for a while but that has been displaced by a Nitecore EX. My favorite pocket light for daily carry to date. The Nitecore does not get quite as bright at thi highest setting af the P2 but the low is much much lower and more useful.

 

[CSG]

For those doing night time camping type tasks and wanting to preserve some night vision, a small LED red bulb is probably your best bet. We use them in astronomy so we can read charts, find eyepieces, etc. without destroying our night vision. I've got one clipped on the outside of my packs.

The need for bright isn't in the everyday tasks, it's for lighting up the night, signaling, etc. My Night Ops was bought primarily for nightstand/defensive use not camping use. I've got some little Photon styled lights and Fenix E01's for that but really should have something superbright and controllable for survival needs in these packs too. If I'm lost and trying to signal someone on the ground our air I want a beam that's bright and reaches out. I don't know all the flashlight terminology but I know that seeing a distance and being seen from a distance is a good thing.

 

[Any Cal.]

The differences have nothing to do w/ lumen output. The old Surefire Incans rounded down the lumen output slightly, not so much the LED. The Fenix TK series advertised outuputs tend to be torch lumens. The 120 lumens of the Surefire may be 130 or so, but it is still much less than the Fenix, which has been tested at over 220.

It has everything to do with the beam pattern. I have a Surefire E1B that I believe will outhrow the E2DL, with even fewer lumens (80-90 ish), but it has an incredibly tight optic.

It really depends on what you are using it for. Looking at the first set of pictures, if you were looking for a person or animal in that building, in a hurry, would you really want the spot beam of the E2DL? Also, w/ no rechargeable capability, and an off the wall mode change sequence?

While the E2DL is different than the TK series, it really just depends on what you need it for as to whether it is "better" or not. Is a 4 wheel drive diesel truck better than a Camaro? Once again, depends on what you need.