Rethinking the "Tanto."

So what exactly are the historical origins of what we've come to regard as the tanto point? Does it belong to the smaller knife known as the kaiken? The kiridashi? A fantasy blending of several different knife types and incorrectly labeled as being a tanto? Was it something the Japanese cooked up to sell to ignorant tourists and we just ran with it?

Edit:

Ironically a google search on the history of tanto points brought me back to here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/658783-History-of-American-Tanto-Point

If I'm reading it right, what we've come to know as the tanto point is a historical design, just not a widespread design.
 
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Charlie_K said:
So what exactly are the historical origins of what we've come to regard as the tanto point? Does it belong to the smaller knife known as the kaiken? The kiridashi? A fantasy blending of several different knife types and incorrectly labeled as being a tanto? Was it something the Japanese cooked up to sell to ignorant tourists and we just ran with it?
Click to expand...

Check the links in the post I made on page 1.
 
Charlie_K said:
So what exactly are the historical origins of what we've come to regard as the tanto point? Does it belong to the smaller knife known as the kaiken? The kiridashi? A fantasy blending of several different knife types and incorrectly labeled as being a tanto? Was it something the Japanese cooked up to sell to ignorant tourists and we just ran with it?

Edit:

Ironically a google search on the history of tanto points brought me back to here http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/658783-History-of-American-Tanto-Point

If I'm reading it right, what we've come to know as the tanto point is a historical design, just not a widespread design.
Click to expand...

Yep, with a bit of a misleading name since most "Tantos" were Hira-Zukuri blade shape.
 
Lycosa said:
Hi Gang! For a long time, I was a big 'tanto" fan, and still am but, we're talking Japanese tantos. Most of their tantos, and other war blades, had the nice curved point, not the abrupt, so-called American point. I do believe the curved point is actually stronger that the abrupt point because there is more metal in that curve.
For basic use, I do not see a real advantage with the American tanto point. A nice Spyderco or drop-point blade shape is what I now prefer.
Thanks.
rolf
Click to expand...

Fair enough buddy. I remember thinking at one time that this style tanto tip looked like the circle under a dogs tail. Then I realized that having two strong 'tips' were useful in my outdoor wood processing, bark peeling, etc. I can see views going either way, but I am fine with that tip style now. I actually prefer this tip outdoors these days for my occasional prying or reaming of wood. I remember a few years back with the wife, camping in the Boreal forest. It rained and rained. I gave the morning fire a tremendous boost each day by prying off great slabs of coniferous bark slathered in thick gobs of oozing semi dried sap. The bloody stuff was like napalm as a fire booster. I didn't have to worry about snapping off a knife tip while prying this stuff off before my (at least) two morning coffees. My normally constricted cranial capacity is taxed more heavily, and I am more clumsy, before those cups of heavy duty mud.
 
upnorth- Thanks for the story.
Lots of knuts like the abrupt tanto style point, for reasons you mentioned.
My buddy works on re-purposing old furniture and he now favors his Emerson/Kershaw folder with that abrupt tanto point.
Of course, I turned him on to Emerson knives. :D
rolf
 
Lycosa said:
upnorth- Thanks for the story.
Lots of knuts like the abrupt tanto style point, for reasons you mentioned.
My buddy works on re-purposing old furniture and he now favors his Emerson/Kershaw folder with that abrupt tanto point.
Of course, I turned him on to Emerson knives. :D
rolf
Click to expand...

;)..........
 
Some of the first knives I remember getting as a kid in the mid/late `80s were tantos, and my fascination with the design has never faded. I think there is plenty of utility value if the shape and grind are done right. Of course, there are some oddball models out there that I couldn't resist simply because of the look. I've owned a good number of the "big name" brands' tanto flavors, the Kershaw Cyclone, CRKT Greg Lightfoot and Benchmade Lum being among the more interesting.

This is the Explorer tanto (not my pic) that started it all for me:

cold-steel-tanto-explorer-tactical_1_b5f10ff1900da5871f34e0a2cf9d9ae0.jpg
 
There are fans of the Tanto, though I'm not. Too much work is done with the very small turn part of the blade. Sure it focuses the force but that is a tiny area of steel doing all the work with the rest of the blade taking little part in it all.
For digging and chiselling then the front chisel is angled. For wood working then use a chisel.

I agree the tip can be made strong, but they are only as strong as the angle of the grind which tend to be steep. That could be done on a classic blade too, so as an argument goes isn't that good a one.

I just don't find them very efficient, and prefer a blade that more of the edge can be utilised for all the different tasks. Nothing completely wrong, but nothing specially great either.
 
falar said:
Yep, with a bit of a misleading name since most "Tantos" were Hira-Zukuri blade shape.
Click to expand...

Quoted for truth.

Tantos were very rarely made with a yokote (ridge line) and if you see one they're usually suriage (shortened) wakizashi . There are exceptions of course and some tanto profiles such as osuraku zukuri feature a yokote by design, albeit much further back along the blade.

As falar stated, most were hira zukuri which is a full, slightly convex zero. Think Rockstead's honzukuri profile but with the grind running all the way up to the mune (spine).
 
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