Retro thoughts - opinions, please on ergo

If your going to say something is better, theres a reason behind it. If you just feel like it's better, then it's a matter of finding the words to describe why. All opinions are valid, as long as your willing to explain them with enough thoroughness to go beyond 'I feel that x just because I feel that way'.

I never had the BAE, but I did have a BME, and I've had several other smaller to mid sized knives. If your concerned with the thickness of the blade, consider that the NMSFNO is the same thickness, and the blade is about the same height, but I've heard very few people claim that the NMSFNO is less than an excellent all around camp knife. 1/4" is fairly thick with a knife that short, but it depends on what your going to be doing with it. If you want something thats very compact but very stout, it fits the bill.

When I think of the BAE I tend to think of a post I read from.... cobalt or nick or one of the other much older members who always had informative posts, who said that it was one of the best combat/under fire knives he had used. The ergo handle is excellent at maintaining blind indexing of where the blade is (knowing where it is when picking it up in pitch blackness) as well as providing torque in a twisting motion, because the handle is so tall yet so thin. Even greased up with fat/blood/sweat it gives good purchase just because of it's thin box shape. You get a ton of feedback from the knife and can really force stuff around with it. In the woods that would be helpful for when you need your knife at night and don't have proper lighting.

But... it is very short (and has a choil). Because of that I wouldn't say it's in the all around camp knife catagory with things like the SARSquatch or NMSFNO. In the smaller general camp category with stuff like the SAR5, MUK's, BOSS Jacks and the likes, it comes across as a big burly knife that isn't necessarily that much better at chopping, even though it weighs more, because it's not any easier to do a 3 finger grip on the big ergo handles. It does however give more the option of much harder torque (lateral and torsional) and better blind indexing and feedback in it's size catagory. If it didn't have the choil, I'd probably have one for that reason alone. It stands out in it's size as excelling better than the rest in that function, something to pick up, slam stuff around with, know exactly where the edge is, and not worry about having to pry/torque your media with.
 
If you want something that fits a true 'all around everything' user, the noe is closer, and for me the Basic 7 is closer still. The basic 7 is lighter than the noe (and probably the bae) While still having a 7" blade, it also has a more blade heavy balance because the huge ergo handles don't throw the balance towards nuetral on it. The reciprene handles are comfortable and in the larger size (basics came in 2 sizes) and usable when wet or greasy, though with less feedback and grip security than the ergo's. It's kind of a trade off between rubber texture and geometry, you get a smaller handle with a grippier texture, but it's smaller and less able to deliver torque to the blade. It can chop okay, can be used for any normal camp chore, and is long enough to baton with. Did I mention it's really light for it's size?

The other concern for a heavy user is resistance to breakage in the handle. Most people would say that the exposed tang of the ergo's makes it a harder use knife - it does and it doesn't. It will let you pry with it with less bending, will add overall weight (but not blade heavy weight), but for the user it's only as 'strong' as the method of securing the scales since you need them to be your interface with the stronger tang. Those tube fasteners will take a few light hits or even one or two medium/heavy hits before they start to sheer, but they will most definitely sheer if you hit them hard enough. Once sheered, you've got a compromised handle for the user. The scale is offset and pinchy, with enough time it will start to rattle with each chop or baton strike. You can wrap it in paracord, but that may not be available in the feild. Heavily sheered tube fasteners are a pain to repair in the feild, and a pain to repair in your home (you have to drill them out, replace with new tubes, then flair them out). One fix is to remove them and replace them with much heavier duty machine screws and threaded stand offs, but that adds weight to the handle, makes it a non-factory set up, and takes time and equipment.

The reciprene handles will also get damaged, but not in the same immediately drastic way for the user. If you slam the ricasso of the knife while batoning (should be avoided), your giong to end up hitting the forward part of the handle material and it's going to split. Even if you tear it up so much that it's just a pile of rubber shredding barely containing the tang - that's a part of the handle that doesn't rest directly under the hand. The knife is still totally usable. Ugly, but with very little effect on the users hand. If you end up sheering/bending/breaking the pin at the end, you can shove a stick into it and it will hold the handle on in the same fashion with little noticeable difference to the user, because all it's doing is keeping the rubber handle from slipping downward off the tang. So even though rubber may seem delicate, the types of damage your likely to receive are not catastrophic for the user, they are isolated to the spot where it was hit and they are either easily fixed or don't effect the users hand very much. Where with exposed tangs, the damage your liable to see makes the use of the handle uncomfortable and is difficult to fix.
 
The knives being discussed:
From SNAFU on jerzeedevil (I don't want to link to the page since it was a sale (from 2007))
DSC02080.jpg


From jimmyjones
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/499761-Busse-Basics?p=4910514#post4910514
basics.jpg



I'm just waiting for jerry to release the CABSXL in 2.0 (A longer cabs in the harder rendition of INFI). But, you go for whats available. Your not going to go wrong with any of the knives you've mentioned here. The Basic 7 and NOE will give you the widest rang of use, but the the BAE is one of the most well crafted knives Jerry has produced, that excels it's specific skillset.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
The other concern for a heavy user is resistance to breakage in the handle. Most people would say that the exposed tang of the ergo's makes it a harder use knife - it does and it doesn't. It will let you pry with it with less bending, will add overall weight (but not blade heavy weight), but for the user it's only as 'strong' as the method of securing the scales since you need them to be your interface with the stronger tang. Those tube fasteners will take a few light hits or even one or two medium/heavy hits before they start to sheer, but they will most definitely sheer if you hit them hard enough. Once sheered, you've got a compromised handle for the user. The scale is offset and pinchy, with enough time it will start to rattle with each chop or baton strike. You can wrap it in paracord, but that may not be available in the feild. Heavily sheered tube fasteners are a pain to repair in the feild, and a pain to repair in your home (you have to drill them out, replace with new tubes, then flair them out). One fix is to remove them and replace them with much heavier duty machine screws and threaded stand offs, but that adds weight to the handle, makes it a non-factory set up, and takes time and equipment.

The reciprene handles will also get damaged, but not in the same immediately drastic way for the user. If you slam the ricasso of the knife while batoning (should be avoided), your giong to end up hitting the forward part of the handle material and it's going to split. Even if you tear it up so much that it's just a pile of rubber shredding barely containing the tang - that's a part of the handle that doesn't rest directly under the hand. The knife is still totally usable. Ugly, but with very little effect on the users hand. If you end up sheering/bending/breaking the pin at the end, you can shove a stick into it and it will hold the handle on in the same fashion with little noticeable difference to the user, because all it's doing is keeping the rubber handle from slipping downward off the tang. So even though rubber may seem delicate, the types of damage your likely to receive are not catastrophic for the user, they are isolated to the spot where it was hit and they are either easily fixed or don't effect the users hand very much. Where with exposed tangs, the damage your liable to see makes the use of the handle uncomfortable and is difficult to fix.
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i.e., ergo (tube fasteners):
images


resiprene-C:
images
 
kinda :p

Most users have never sheered a scale on a tube fastened knife, but I have and it made the knife annoying to use (as well as needing special attention to fix). I've split multiple points on reciprene c and bent the pommels tube fastener, and it never effected it's use in a noticeable way.
 
Thanks guys - and especially LVC- for the replies,

I forgot to mention, that all blades in the shop are sterile, with no logo. But with the factory boxes and papers.
LVC, the blade of the Basic 7 - what is in the shop - is a bit less tall, and more pointy. the relation of thickness and blade width makes it more of a stabber for me...definitely not as high as the one on your pics.

I understand your points, the thing is the BA-E somehow "talks" to me...my mind is just rolling over and over to get it or not....arrgh.
 
I like the feel of the ergos, and the looks. If you really like the knives, hell, go for them. No regrets right? Sometimes you just have to go for it.

See if they'll cut you a break if you get both the ergos :D



PS- Eric, stop looking at DRB's satin BMe, I already have dibs :p
 
Tyrade83 said:
*raises hand* Me?
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YES!:D Sent me a note, I'll be putting a run together in a week or so.

drbarnes said:
Am I too late? :D I'd like one!
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Sure, why not! Two's company! :D Send me a note as well.

ikkyo said:
Thanks guys - and especially LVC- for the replies,

I forgot to mention, that all blades in the shop are sterile, with no logo. But with the factory boxes and papers.
LVC, the blade of the Basic 7 - what is in the shop - is a bit less tall, and more pointy. the relation of thickness and blade width makes it more of a stabber for me...definitely not as high as the one on your pics.

I understand your points, the thing is the BA-E somehow "talks" to me...my mind is just rolling over and over to get it or not....arrgh.
Click to expand...

The sting of the purchase only lasts for a while, the forever is the feeling you get when you pick it up and think, "Yes, this is THE knife for me" :)

EDIT: Two is enough out of this run, but stay tuned for more free leather down the road!
 
Last Visible Canary said:
When I think of the BAE I tend to think of a post I read from.... cobalt or nick or one of the other much older members who always had informative posts, who said that it was one of the best combat/under fire knives he had used. The ergo handle is excellent at maintaining blind indexing of where the blade is (knowing where it is when picking it up in pitch blackness) as well as providing torque in a twisting motion, because the handle is so tall yet so thin. Even greased up with fat/blood/sweat it gives good purchase just because of it's thin box shape. You get a ton of feedback from the knife and can really force stuff around with it. In the woods that would be helpful for when you need your knife at night and don't have proper lighting.
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I have to address this since it is a very valid paragraph about the Ergo line. A few years ago I was part of a hunting party for one loooong season. We skinned and processed over 100 deer and pigs that year. Some nights I'd do five or more deer.

The handle of the BAe helped immensely when in the gut of an animal where you cant see where your knife is. The handle also helped greatly with fatigue, other handle designs are not all that comfortable when the hand starts to weaken, the ergo handle lasted longer for me especially, I didn't get tired nearly as fast as with other smaller grips.

Another area where the little Badger shined was joint removal. The blade is stout enough to poke into the joint and the handle wide enough to allow for some fierce twisting to loosen the ligaments and the blade is heavy enough to chop through the joint and pelvis.

Unfortunately I didnt start using my Badger till toward the end of the season and only got to use it on a couple dozen deer and 6 or 8 pigs. I would have had a lot less hand cramps that year had I started with the darn thing in the first place. :p

My go to knives are the pairing of my BAe and SHe, they cover nearly anything I throw at them. Well, the Rat Mastiff gets in there as well, but thats a smelly old Rat, right Bravado? :)
 
pffffffffffffffffffff.
done.

...any sheats left, Dwayne?!:o

...just joking.
at least I'll have an easier sleep tonight with a BA-e under my pillow.
 
I like Ergo's too !


Ok, Russ motivated me to post, BUT

I blame Porkerson !!!!!!!!!!!!

e-hanldes_naked.jpg


cicle_e_naked.jpg
 
You know Russ, that BAe on the far right looks remarkably familiar.......:D
 
I think I see a Caretaker in one of those pics! Droooool. One of my grail knives. imho.
 
ikkyo said:
pffffffffffffffffffff.
done.

...any sheats left, Dwayne?!:o

...just joking.
at least I'll have an easier sleep tonight with a BA-e under my pillow.
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Outstanding!!!!! The pain does recede with time. I still have two BAe on hand so I bet I can help you out on the sheath. :) B4 as well. ;) No opinion here, its fact. :p Like dericdesmond says, pics please!
 
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