Unless all Glock 26s shoot as good as mine, I got lucky that way too. My little 26 shoots better than both my full-sized Sig and my Browning Hi-Power.
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Revolvers versus Autos plus Revolver Tips
- Thread starter Old CW4
- Start date
Unless all Glock 26s shoot as good as mine, I got lucky that way too. My little 26 shoots better than both my full-sized Sig and my Browning Hi-Power.
So such a weapon doesn't need any kind of moon clips to run on 9 mm ammo? That's pretty neat.
As Rugers go, this one fascinated me (in books) when I was in 3rd grade. I bet it was an accurate pistol.
Old CW4
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Box Ant, Very discerning, Sir! Yes, I am somewhat 'slanted' toward wheel guns. I cut my teeth on them as a kid and even though I recognize the advantages of autos, I still, deep inside, prefer a wheel gun.
It is a a bit of a 'bear' these days to qualify on the standard LEO combat course with a revolver but I practiced until I can. Since then, I've preferably carried my 41 mag S&W revolver on duty, and I'm the only 'nut' in my department who packs a revolver rather than the usual Glock 22 or similar.
I have a Glock 22 and it's a good pistol but I always feel better armed with my S&W 41 mag. I'll either nail you or make you duck for cover with the 41 at 100, 200, or 300 plus yards but I can't say that with the Glock. Bear in mind, my hobby for lots of years has been long range hand gunning mostly with big bore revolvers so don't pause to scratch yourself or light a cigrette if I have a bead on you.
BTW, the ONLY reason I don't carry something larger than 41 is department regulations. If they ever change that, I also have 44 mags and even larger waiting in the wings.
It is a a bit of a 'bear' these days to qualify on the standard LEO combat course with a revolver but I practiced until I can. Since then, I've preferably carried my 41 mag S&W revolver on duty, and I'm the only 'nut' in my department who packs a revolver rather than the usual Glock 22 or similar.
I have a Glock 22 and it's a good pistol but I always feel better armed with my S&W 41 mag. I'll either nail you or make you duck for cover with the 41 at 100, 200, or 300 plus yards but I can't say that with the Glock. Bear in mind, my hobby for lots of years has been long range hand gunning mostly with big bore revolvers so don't pause to scratch yourself or light a cigrette if I have a bead on you.
BTW, the ONLY reason I don't carry something larger than 41 is department regulations. If they ever change that, I also have 44 mags and even larger waiting in the wings.
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Anyone have any experience with this gun?
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I'd have to disagree, considering revolvers were invented long before autos.
Not much different than dropping a mag and racking the slide while pushing the slide stop up.
I understand what you're saying in regards to safety, but I believe it's better to educate the person than to try and dumb down the gun.
That said I love my S&W 686 and my Glock 21 equally.
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Another possibility for me, hopefully, is a nice 1917 service revolver. A friend of mine has been pulling a few of these out of thin air recently, at least 95% original blue. He has a target model (didn't know there was such a thing) and a Brazilian army loaner. He's been hinting that there might be more from where those came from (hasn't shared his source yet) after I get my permit.
Cougar Allen
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barcbsa
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Are you dreaming???? I've had my Monroe county (NY) Concealed Carry Permit for almost 30 years... had no problem getting it.
Never carried money for work and I'm not famous... well, maybe infamous.
And oh yeah, I've got a misdemeanor conviction from when I was a teenager (almost 40 years ago). Also got a Utah non-resident CC permit within the last year.
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Sorry, I typed too quickly. I live in Nassau Co. - the closer you get to NYC, the tougher it is to get a permit.
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So if you had simple hand tools, like the ones Sam Colt had back in 1836 which would be more simple or complex to make revolvers or autos?
The firing mechanism (trigger and hammer group) is largely the same in most cases.
A revolver has a fixed barrel where most autos have a barrel that unlocks and cams.
There is no balancing of slide weight/spring tension/cartridge power with revolvers.
Most revolvers don't have safety mechanisms.
The firing pin is fixed to the hammer on some revolvers versus a separate mechanism on an auto.
tyr_shadowblade
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Thirty-five years ago my Dad applied for a NYS Pistol Permit. All they wanted was his photograph. Permit was non-expiring.
Earlier this year my stepson applied for a NYS Pistol Permit -- and he is employed as a field investigator for NYS CPS and knows the judge personally. Basically, he had to submit to a TS security clearance style background check. 2 photos, prints, multiple checks from several agencies, a "statement of need" and FIVE letters of reference from NYS residents who have known him for over a year, attest to his good character, and sign in front of a notary. After all that it took over 4 months for his application to be processed and approved. My Dad had a .357 in storage that was given to my stepson and he needed to register it with the state and have it listed on his permit. "Where did you get this handgun?" They wanted to know. Had to wait another week for them to run the numbers to see if any red flags popped up before he was allowed to list it on his permit. And his application went smoothly. But I think it expires in a few years, then needs to be renewed.
There are some counties, even quite far from NYC, where permit applications are arbitrarily denied at the judge's whim. I recall reading about a judge who claimed that "no-one needs a loaded gun in their house" and had denied every single CCW application that crossed his desk unless he knew the applicant personally or the applicant was a LEO.
There is no appeals process and no recourse. Permits are denied, restricted or revoked at the judge's whim, and he is not required to provide any explanation for his actions.
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So by your logic, a Wheellock is less complex than a flint lock, because it's older.
Old CW4
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Colt's 1836 revolvers were cap and ball, and cartridge revolvers didn't gain wide acceptance until 1873 when Colt introduced the 'Peacemaker.' After that, it took a while before another genius, Hiram Maxim, in the 1880s, realized that recoil energy could be used to eject the spent round and simultaneously compress a 'recoil' spring to pick up and chamber another round from a belt, and a belt is a flexible magazine of sorts.
The first practical machine gun was Dr. Gatling's gem and he possibly stole the idea from a Leonardo da Vinci design of centuries before. The Gatling was a large, heavy beast on wheels and thus did not get wide acceptance although its principals remain in use today. Following the Gatling, it was another 20 plus years before Maxim figured out how to use the wasted energy of recoil to chamber another cartridge automatically and the machine gun, pretty much as we know it today, was born. Following that, Borchard, Luger, Browning, and many others came up with mechanically simple, compared to a revolver, self loading handguns. Browning didn't invent auto pistols but his genius was in figuring out how to introduce a mechanical delay (the drop down barrel, etc.) which permitted much more powerful rounds to be fired from relatively light pistols and the 1911 45 was born. Actually Browning completed his design about 1906 but it wasn't accepted by the Army until 1911, hence the 1911 designation.
If you know handguns, you'll know a DA, even a SA, revolver is a complex firearm and requires precision to manufacture, assemble, and fit the parts. The cylinder has to be precisely machined and fitted so each chamber lines up with the barrel, and it has complex combinations of cams, gears, pawls, and springs to rotate the cylinder, lock it in place for firing, cock the hammer, and so on. Even the mechanisms to swing out the cylinder and eject the spent rounds are complex. I know because I've repaired and tuned hundreds over the years to make them function correctly. Give me a simple auto anyday to repair vice a revolver...!
Autos require none of that complexity to function. Most auto pistols today combine the slide and bolt in one piece. When a cartridge is fired, recoil drives the slide back, extracts the fired round, and ejects it. The slide/bolt recoil spring is compressed and when it returns the slide/bolt to 'battery,' it picks up another round from a mag and chambers it. At the same time, the recoiling slide/bolt cocks an internal striker or external hammer. All of that is mechanically simple compared to a DA revolver!
As for Colt not having sophisticated technology available in 1836---Bull! By that time the world had railroads, steamships, printing presses, and factories mass producing countless products---clocks, surgical and navigational instruments, farm implements, tools, utensils, toys, furniture, clothing, implements of war, and on and on. Do a little research and learn how advanced the world had become by 1836. Hell, the Brits were madder than hell at us long before then because we 'Yankees' were mass producing accurate and cheap clocks which drove many Brit and European clock makers out of business.
Read 'Development of the Gun' by Greener if you want some insight into just how advanced machining, mettalurgy, and so on had become by the 1830s. They even had accurate mechanical chronographs 150 years back and methods to accurately measure breech and barrel pressures. They produced black powder and percussion caps in vast quantities and with very tight quality control. When that Scotch pastor invented percussion caps about 1807 or so, he started a revolution in guns. Although the Brits did keep the Brown Bess flintlocks in service for another 30 years probably due to the expense of changing over to percussion caps.
Well prior to 1836, the US also mass produced firearms although all were single shot and muzzle loaders. However, remember that during the Revolutionary War, a Brit officer and his unit were equipped with breech loaders and it was sheer luck Washington wasn't sniped with one or so the Brit officer later claimed. Anyway, experimentation with breech loaders, self loaders, revolvers, etc., was going on all the time.
IMO, Sam Colt assimiliated available technology and didn't invent anything radically new to come up with his first revolvers. There were many other similar designs and prototypes in progress at the same time. Colt's just happened to be the first that worked reasonably well and could easily be mass produced. BTW, Colt used Brit and European funding for his first guns. Hiram Maxim had to go the same route and sell his first machine guns in Europe because they weren't, at first, looked on favorably here in the US.
The first practical machine gun was Dr. Gatling's gem and he possibly stole the idea from a Leonardo da Vinci design of centuries before. The Gatling was a large, heavy beast on wheels and thus did not get wide acceptance although its principals remain in use today. Following the Gatling, it was another 20 plus years before Maxim figured out how to use the wasted energy of recoil to chamber another cartridge automatically and the machine gun, pretty much as we know it today, was born. Following that, Borchard, Luger, Browning, and many others came up with mechanically simple, compared to a revolver, self loading handguns. Browning didn't invent auto pistols but his genius was in figuring out how to introduce a mechanical delay (the drop down barrel, etc.) which permitted much more powerful rounds to be fired from relatively light pistols and the 1911 45 was born. Actually Browning completed his design about 1906 but it wasn't accepted by the Army until 1911, hence the 1911 designation.
If you know handguns, you'll know a DA, even a SA, revolver is a complex firearm and requires precision to manufacture, assemble, and fit the parts. The cylinder has to be precisely machined and fitted so each chamber lines up with the barrel, and it has complex combinations of cams, gears, pawls, and springs to rotate the cylinder, lock it in place for firing, cock the hammer, and so on. Even the mechanisms to swing out the cylinder and eject the spent rounds are complex. I know because I've repaired and tuned hundreds over the years to make them function correctly. Give me a simple auto anyday to repair vice a revolver...!
Autos require none of that complexity to function. Most auto pistols today combine the slide and bolt in one piece. When a cartridge is fired, recoil drives the slide back, extracts the fired round, and ejects it. The slide/bolt recoil spring is compressed and when it returns the slide/bolt to 'battery,' it picks up another round from a mag and chambers it. At the same time, the recoiling slide/bolt cocks an internal striker or external hammer. All of that is mechanically simple compared to a DA revolver!
As for Colt not having sophisticated technology available in 1836---Bull! By that time the world had railroads, steamships, printing presses, and factories mass producing countless products---clocks, surgical and navigational instruments, farm implements, tools, utensils, toys, furniture, clothing, implements of war, and on and on. Do a little research and learn how advanced the world had become by 1836. Hell, the Brits were madder than hell at us long before then because we 'Yankees' were mass producing accurate and cheap clocks which drove many Brit and European clock makers out of business.
Read 'Development of the Gun' by Greener if you want some insight into just how advanced machining, mettalurgy, and so on had become by the 1830s. They even had accurate mechanical chronographs 150 years back and methods to accurately measure breech and barrel pressures. They produced black powder and percussion caps in vast quantities and with very tight quality control. When that Scotch pastor invented percussion caps about 1807 or so, he started a revolution in guns. Although the Brits did keep the Brown Bess flintlocks in service for another 30 years probably due to the expense of changing over to percussion caps.
Well prior to 1836, the US also mass produced firearms although all were single shot and muzzle loaders. However, remember that during the Revolutionary War, a Brit officer and his unit were equipped with breech loaders and it was sheer luck Washington wasn't sniped with one or so the Brit officer later claimed. Anyway, experimentation with breech loaders, self loaders, revolvers, etc., was going on all the time.
IMO, Sam Colt assimiliated available technology and didn't invent anything radically new to come up with his first revolvers. There were many other similar designs and prototypes in progress at the same time. Colt's just happened to be the first that worked reasonably well and could easily be mass produced. BTW, Colt used Brit and European funding for his first guns. Hiram Maxim had to go the same route and sell his first machine guns in Europe because they weren't, at first, looked on favorably here in the US.
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Ditto on the simplicity of autos. Even simpler is the open bolt full auto. A guy in England wrote a book with step by step instructions to build a SMG with less than most people on BF have in there garage.
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[youtube]W6jy4yi7B78[/youtube]
[youtube]jqdVED0Gihk[/youtube]
[youtube]W6jy4yi7B78[/youtube]
Old CW4
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Charlie Mike,
Thanks. My absolute favorite weapon in Nam was the 45 Grease Gun. I packed mine all over the country and always felt well armed with what began as a $13.00 piece of junk first made by American Can Co. to replace the overly complex and expensive Thompsons. As you no doubt know, the Greaser was an open bolt, shove in from the mag, and fire weapon that was virtually fool-proof and fail safe. My local sheriff's dept, of which I am a member, recently acquired two Greasers and I have recently had a ball acquiring extra mags for them and shooting the old girls. How sweet it is and what a mechanically simple and effective weapon they are!
I had to respond to the comment about Colt only having access to 'crude hand tools.' People just don't realize how technically advanced we humans have been, actually for thousands of years.....!
Thanks. My absolute favorite weapon in Nam was the 45 Grease Gun. I packed mine all over the country and always felt well armed with what began as a $13.00 piece of junk first made by American Can Co. to replace the overly complex and expensive Thompsons. As you no doubt know, the Greaser was an open bolt, shove in from the mag, and fire weapon that was virtually fool-proof and fail safe. My local sheriff's dept, of which I am a member, recently acquired two Greasers and I have recently had a ball acquiring extra mags for them and shooting the old girls. How sweet it is and what a mechanically simple and effective weapon they are!
I had to respond to the comment about Colt only having access to 'crude hand tools.' People just don't realize how technically advanced we humans have been, actually for thousands of years.....!
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Here's more...
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[youtube]iukCrZLUK78[/youtube]
[youtube]3AwlG1Oox6Q[/youtube]
[youtube]iukCrZLUK78[/youtube]
Old CW4
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I wish we wouldn't get into the 'how to' of machine guns. They are illegal as hell to make or possess without going through all the legal hoops. In all my years as a gunsmith I have always flatly refused to make or alter anything to full auto, ditto for silencers, and I've been asked, begged, and offered large sums of money to do so. I just flat won't....! I know the information is out there on the Internet but if you search it out, read it for educational purposes only. Please don't do it....
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Exactly... Do not try at home.