Rhinoceros horn!?!

RogerP said:
Excellent post. I hope you are right about your last comment, but I somehow doubt it. Some seem to think it's a great big joke. I sure don't. I really appreciate your first hand account and insight.

Roger
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My sentiments exactly. Thanks for the excellent post Buffalohump.
 
Hopefully no one thinks some of us are joking about endangered or threatened species. I personally take offense to those who do. But it IS a joke how so many people "mouth" their sentiments rather than actively assist, on a volunteer basis - as I do - in the rehabilitation of threatened or endangered species - in my case with birds.

It doesn't matter whether the subject is rhinoceros or birds, but some things just get overworked by people with big mouths but no actions.

EDIT: And when it comes to a thread like this, where the subject turns from custom knives to mouthing sentiment instead of taking action, why don't some of you do some volunteer work and take some action. That might lessen thread content. In my case, I don't intend to contribute to it any further. I've made my point - do something about it, put up or shut up.
 
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Hillbillenigma said:
With that said, due to the loss of habitat, poaching, low birth rate and other factors Rhinos have been decreasing in numbers for a long time. Same with elephants.
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you don't know much about africa, do you? elephants are so numerous in areas they must be culled to keep from completely deforesting an area, thus starving the remaining elephants. yes, loss of habitat is a cause of elephant decline, but decline often means concentration of elephants in other areas when they move out of areas with too many people. so you have no elephants in area A, thus a decline, but an overabundance of in area B which is often overlooked! and, elephants have no problem raiding crops and farms; they are very adept at survival.

Poaching is crappy no matter what the species, but legally taken animal products (killed or harvested fossils) make great knife handles!
 
do something about it, put up or shut up.
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Took some action some time ago....The results are shown in the link below.

http://welcome.georgiasouthern.edu/wildlife/

Excerpt from information on the Director.
Georgia Southern University biology graduate Harry Mathews, a friend and art patron of Steve’s, had the idea of bringing a Bald Eagle to GSU. Mr. Mathews was concerned by the level of public understanding for this endangered species, and thought that the presence of Georgia Southern’s mascot in an educational setting might make a difference. With his federal permits, Steve Hein was asked to advise the concept committee, and was eventually asked to direct the endeavor. The university pledged five acres of prime campus real estate and a portion of operating expenses, and asked Steve to spearhead the capital campaign.
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How's that?
 
I have been buying high end knife handle material for a long time and know most of the dealers. I have never seen any rino horn for sale.

And from the photos, I don't like the looks of it. Just saying...
 
TAH said:
Sometimes one elephant must die to help many others live. This is the philosophy of conservation through controlled, legal hunting. Last I heard, the average price of an elephant license costs $10,000 plus trophy fees and other expenses. This money goes a long way in protection efforts against poaching of the living herds.
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TAH said:
Black and White Rhinos are still legal to hunt in a few African countries, but very limited.

Here's more info in all African game.

http://www.tjsafari.com/animals.cfm
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TAH said:
Ron Lake is very highly regarded in the custom knife world. I don't think anyone should criticize him unless you know for sure the history of this particular rhino horn. As someone already mentioned, it could have come from an old trophy laying around. Like it or not, those old trophies do exist.
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TAH said:
For what it's worth, Ron wasn't trying to hide anything. He was correct about making a fixed blade with Cape Buffalo.
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TAH said:
And another Cape Buffalo handle sold in Germany. Pretty knife...IMO, of course. :)
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Jos said:
Yeah. So he made TWO knives with rhino horn... so what? Probably from the same source. Are you on a crusade against Ron Lake, TAH? Just asking...
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Jos,

Did it sound like I was on a crusade against Ron Lake?

Kind regards,

Tom
 
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If the price of rino horn on the open market is anywhere near $40,000 I am sure you will not see any knifemakers using it unless it was found in a antique shop somewhere which probably would probably be from a time before the band. Kind of like finding a box made of tortoise and cutting it up. Ya think?
Cliff
 
Here follow a list of articles that some can search using Google. I hope most are accessible to the public as I think this will enable many to understand the management of Ivory and Rhino's horn trade, management of these animals through local economic empowerment/development, community management and culling.

PLEASE REMEMBER THE FOLLOWING! I DO NOT CONDOLE POUCHING! There are numerous strategies to prevent pouching, however this is an ongoing battle and as with many other parts in life needs constant improvement. Ivory and Rhino horn can be LEGALLY obtained through the right infrastructure and documentation to prove it is not illegal! NOT EVERYONE USING THESE MATERIALS ARE CRIMINALS! I am an post graduate Environmental Management student so my reverences are academic and researched papers by NGO's and other academic organisations. I advise everyone to speak to someone at local university in Environmental Management, Zoo-logy, nature conservation, marine conservation etc if you are really serious about understanding the complexity revolving the conservation of endangered mammals. I am a South African dealing with these issues. They are far more complex then one might think and we are merely touching the tip of the ice berg on these matters.

(Food for thought...search for biodiversity hotspots and endangered ecosystems and lists of endangered vegetation. You might just realise in what a threatened state we live in...we are approaching a tipping point in our regional ecosystems where all species are under threat from development and humans)

1. http://www.thesmall5005.com/files/WWF-SA Rhino Conservation_0.pdf

2. Patterns of depletion in a Kenya rhinonext term population and the conservation implications
Biological Conservation
Volume 24, Issue 2, October 1982, Pages 147-156

3. Intelligent data analysis for conservation: experiments with rhino
horn fingerprint identification
Rajan Amina

4. Africa's elephants and rhinos:next term Flagships in crisis
David Western
Wildlife Conservation International, New York Zoological Society, Box 62844, Nairobi, Kenya
Trends in Ecology & Evolution
Volume 2, Issue 11, November 1987, Pages 343-346

5. Changes in the economic use value of elephant in Botswana: the
effect of international trade prohibition
J . I . Barnes

6. The economics of wildlife farming and endangered
species conservation
Richard Damania

7. Ivory and ecology—changing perspectives on elephant
management and the international trade in ivory
Lindsey Gillson

8. Can culling a threatened species increase its chance of persisting?
Ecological Modelling, Volume 201, Issue 1, 10 February 2007, Pages 11-18
Michael Bode, Hugh Possingham
 
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My question is, what does the left and right have to do with anything??? The left helps sometimes,the right helps sometimes in conservation programs. Just my opinion.

Regards

Robin
 
TAH said:
Did it sound like I was on a crusade against Ron Lake? :rolleyes:
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Not really, but was it really necessary to post that 2nd knife, seeing the way this discussion was going?

Kind regards,

Jos
 
Jos said:
Not really, but was it really necessary to post that 2nd knife, seeing the way this discussion was going?

Kind regards,

Jos
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I suppose you're right. Like I said in my OP, I had never seen rhino horn used by a known knifemaker in my 25 years of collecting, so I was surprised when I stumbled on the second one. Regardless of anyone's opinion, both knives are pretty rare and beautifully crafted. No offense intended.

Best,
Tom
 
TAH said:
Regardless of anyone's opinion, both knives are pretty rare and beautifully crafted.
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You sure are right about that! A Lake folder is on top of my wish-list!

Kind regards,

Jos
 
Twenty plus years past at a local gun show a man had a box with a Wilton Square grinder and tons of handle material. Inside the box was 2' piece of Rhino horn. The entire package was $250.00. I passed on the deal as I already owned WSG. I have often wondered since then about the legality and where the RH came from and the particulars of how it was obtained.
 
My gut reaction to ivory and rhino horn is the same as many others here. I don't own anything (knife or otherwise) with ivory or rhino horn.

But why is that?

What about stag, or ram's horn? Or leather for that matter?

Would your opinion change if elephants and rhinos were not endangered but were as populous as deer?
 
I think the elephant and rhino situations are unique because these materials command huge prices on the black market. Wherever such vast sums are involved, people will stop at nothing to obtain them. Without rigorous management of existing animals, this will inevitably lead to their complete disappearance from the earth. Bengal and Siberian Tigers are facing this very real possibility right now. Habitat destruction is one reason but poaching is a major contributor to their critical status.

As to whether it is morally wrong for people to use the flesh and by-products of other creatures for food or decoration, I think that is a debate for another forum.

The Virginian said:
My gut reaction to ivory and rhino horn is the same as many others here. I don't own anything (knife or otherwise) with ivory or rhino horn.

But why is that?

What about stag, or ram's horn? Or leather for that matter?

Would your opinion change if elephants and rhinos were not endangered but were as populous as deer?
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