I'll second that.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Ridiculous budget blade-4 dollar Ozark Trails folders, good blade-pic heavy
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
I'll second that.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 1998
- Messages
- 1,066
Yo Mamma made me aware of the discussion here so I popped over for a T&E report on the one he motivated me to pick up.
emw479, impressive knife for the price, but look at your factory QC. Are they being manufactured in Yangjiang, Xinhui, Jieyang or Xinxing?
I sifted through a dozen of the tan folders in the store (thanks for packaging them in blister pacs with the blade open so you can see the lockup) before I found one that the liner lock was at the right place (between first and second third of the engagement slope). That the factory isn't getting the parts dimensions as you expected or they're not assembling to your standards for safety on the majority of the knives is unfortunate.
I noticed the knives themselves weren't marked with country of manufacture.
I tested the knife lock engagement with manual and soft and hard flip open and was satisfied that there was good engagement. The liner lock did move deeper than the 1/3 boundary, but no further than just into the middle third.
I used 6 spine whacks to test the lock and the lock on my test knife held without play or failure.
Vertical blade movement was nil to trivial on both manual and flip opening.
Side to side blade movement was a bit more than I like, but not excessive and I did not adjust the pivot screw (BTW, what are the washers? Nylon or Polyethylene ?)
As YoMamma points out the liner is too prominent for the safety you're looking for. Taking it down a bit would make it more difficult to unlock, but harder to unlock unintentionally.
I clamped the blade between 2 poly cutting boards and simulated slicing/prying and the prominent liner lock released allowing the blade to unlock. Again, reducing the prominence of the liner lock will make the lock less likely to do this.
I tested side to side and up and down engagement of the blade again and it was still solid. My compliments.
I stropped the edge to remove a slight burr and used the leaves of a cardboard USPS flat rate box for test cutting. I was able to make 15 cuts before the blade began to rip the cardboard. That's not much and not what a heat treated steel should provide, even an inexpensive one. I steeled the edge and stropped again and was able to make another 8 or 10 cuts before it began to tear the cardboard.
I tested the edge with a file and it bit deeply instead of skating. I tested my Sebenza and the file skated as expected. It behaved like it was around the mid 40s in hardness instead of the 52-56 it should be. I have to assume if the steel if 420J2 that the batch of blades was not properly heat treated.
It is remarkably impressive that you produced a folder with G10 sculpted scales and that it can be done with good lockup on a liner lock for this retail price! It appears from YoMama's "field test" that his blade is holding an edge much much better than the one I tested so I conclude the factory knows how to properly heat treat this steel, but they didn't perform the proper job on the lot of blades mine was selected from. Questionable QC. The other indication of questionable QC is that 9 out of 10 of the knives in the store had poor lock position (I admit I bought the best one I could find after a very brief search and didn't buy one of the others to test), but the fact that my test knife and YoMamma's both had good locks indicates it is possible for them to make a safe reliable lock in the facility. The knife is comfortable, carries well, deploys easily enough (a little more detent would make the flipper snappier), can be made to lock solidly, and reports are that the blade steel can be suitable for a properly heat treated 420J2 (in spite of mine being nearly unheat treated. Improvements in the 2 important areas of the lock prominence (influencing safety) and heat treat would make this knife unfathomably good for the price.
emw479, impressive knife for the price, but look at your factory QC. Are they being manufactured in Yangjiang, Xinhui, Jieyang or Xinxing?
I sifted through a dozen of the tan folders in the store (thanks for packaging them in blister pacs with the blade open so you can see the lockup) before I found one that the liner lock was at the right place (between first and second third of the engagement slope). That the factory isn't getting the parts dimensions as you expected or they're not assembling to your standards for safety on the majority of the knives is unfortunate.
I noticed the knives themselves weren't marked with country of manufacture.
I tested the knife lock engagement with manual and soft and hard flip open and was satisfied that there was good engagement. The liner lock did move deeper than the 1/3 boundary, but no further than just into the middle third.
I used 6 spine whacks to test the lock and the lock on my test knife held without play or failure.
Vertical blade movement was nil to trivial on both manual and flip opening.
Side to side blade movement was a bit more than I like, but not excessive and I did not adjust the pivot screw (BTW, what are the washers? Nylon or Polyethylene ?)
As YoMamma points out the liner is too prominent for the safety you're looking for. Taking it down a bit would make it more difficult to unlock, but harder to unlock unintentionally.
I clamped the blade between 2 poly cutting boards and simulated slicing/prying and the prominent liner lock released allowing the blade to unlock. Again, reducing the prominence of the liner lock will make the lock less likely to do this.
I tested side to side and up and down engagement of the blade again and it was still solid. My compliments.
I stropped the edge to remove a slight burr and used the leaves of a cardboard USPS flat rate box for test cutting. I was able to make 15 cuts before the blade began to rip the cardboard. That's not much and not what a heat treated steel should provide, even an inexpensive one. I steeled the edge and stropped again and was able to make another 8 or 10 cuts before it began to tear the cardboard.
I tested the edge with a file and it bit deeply instead of skating. I tested my Sebenza and the file skated as expected. It behaved like it was around the mid 40s in hardness instead of the 52-56 it should be. I have to assume if the steel if 420J2 that the batch of blades was not properly heat treated.
It is remarkably impressive that you produced a folder with G10 sculpted scales and that it can be done with good lockup on a liner lock for this retail price! It appears from YoMama's "field test" that his blade is holding an edge much much better than the one I tested so I conclude the factory knows how to properly heat treat this steel, but they didn't perform the proper job on the lot of blades mine was selected from. Questionable QC. The other indication of questionable QC is that 9 out of 10 of the knives in the store had poor lock position (I admit I bought the best one I could find after a very brief search and didn't buy one of the others to test), but the fact that my test knife and YoMamma's both had good locks indicates it is possible for them to make a safe reliable lock in the facility. The knife is comfortable, carries well, deploys easily enough (a little more detent would make the flipper snappier), can be made to lock solidly, and reports are that the blade steel can be suitable for a properly heat treated 420J2 (in spite of mine being nearly unheat treated. Improvements in the 2 important areas of the lock prominence (influencing safety) and heat treat would make this knife unfathomably good for the price.
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I have been experimenting with low cost Chinese made knives since I bought a Kershaw Asset on EBay a couple of years ago for 16 bucks. You can still buy them for 20 bucks, I really like em. So after seeing your post I had to add a couple of these to the "low cost" collection. Unreal these can be manufactured and sold for 4 dollars FOR A PROFIT! I am wondering how much brass washers would enhance the flipper function. The thumb stud deploys plenty quick enough. I think I'll go get a couple more.
Yo Mamma made me aware of the discussion here so I popped over for a T&E report on the one he motivated me to pick up.
emw479, impressive knife for the price, but look at your factory QC. Are they being manufactured in Yangjiang, Xinhui, Jieyang or Xinxing?
I sifted through a dozen of the tan folders in the store (thanks for packaging them in blister pacs with the blade open so you can see the lockup) before I found one that the liner lock was at the right place (between first and second third of the engagement slope). That the factory isn't getting the parts dimensions as you expected or they're not assembling to your standards for safety on the majority of the knives is unfortunate.
I noticed the knives themselves weren't marked with country of manufacture.
I tested the knife lock engagement with manual and soft and hard flip open and was satisfied that there was good engagement. The liner lock did move deeper than the 1/3 boundary, but no further than just into the middle third.
I used 6 spine whacks to test the lock and the lock on my test knife held without play or failure.
Vertical blade movement was nil to trivial on both manual and flip opening.
Side to side blade movement was a bit more than I like, but not excessive and I did not adjust the pivot screw (BTW, what are the washers? Nylon or Polyethylene ?)
As YoMamma points out the liner is too prominent for the safety you're looking for. Taking it down a bit would make it more difficult to unlock, but harder to unlock unintentionally.
I clamped the blade between 2 poly cutting boards and simulated slicing/prying and the prominent liner lock released allowing the blade to unlock. Again, reducing the prominence of the liner lock will make the lock less likely to do this.
I tested side to side and up and down engagement of the blade again and it was still solid. My compliments.
I stropped the edge to remove a slight burr and used the leaves of a cardboard USPS flat rate box for test cutting. I was able to make 15 cuts before the blade began to rip the cardboard. That's not much and not what a heat treated steel should provide, even an inexpensive one. I steeled the edge and stropped again and was able to make another 8 or 10 cuts before it began to tear the cardboard.
I tested the edge with a file and it bit deeply instead of skating. I tested my Sebenza and the file skated as expected. It behaved like it was around the mid 40s in hardness instead of the 52-56 it should be. I have to assume if the steel if 420J2 that the batch of blades was not properly heat treated.
It is remarkably impressive that you produced a folder with G10 sculpted scales and that it can be done with good lockup on a liner lock for this retail price! It appears from YoMama's "field test" that his blade is holding an edge much much better than the one I tested so I conclude the factory knows how to properly heat treat this steel, but they didn't perform the proper job on the lot of blades mine was selected from. Questionable QC. The other indication of questionable QC is that 9 out of 10 of the knives in the store had poor lock position (I admit I bought the best one I could find after a very brief search and didn't buy one of the others to test), but the fact that my test knife and YoMamma's both had good locks indicates it is possible for them to make a safe reliable lock in the facility. The knife is comfortable, carries well, deploys easily enough (a little more detent would make the flipper snappier), can be made to lock solidly, and reports are that the blade steel can be suitable for a properly heat treated 420J2 (in spite of mine being nearly unheat treated. Improvements in the 2 important areas of the lock prominence (influencing safety) and heat treat would make this knife unfathomably good for the price.
HSO, brilliant reply. I suspect you already work in the industry, but if you don't I know some people who would probably hire you. I have passed this on to my factory.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 1998
- Messages
- 1,066
emw479,
I recommend you carry out your own QC check on the products. If they're coming from the factory in packaging then a 5% visual for what you can tell without opening the packaging (lock alignment being the focus, but general appearance, markings, general construction) can be done using the packaging you used on this knife. Pull about 1% from each shipment and test for lockup and heat treat and edge geometry and performance. If you have the partner factory track the lots of blades and the lots of knives the blades go into you'll be able to see the lots that have questionable heat treat and lockup you discover in your QC checks. Also, if you look at grinds or cast/molded parts you'll be able to see when the factory pushes their equipment too far before changeout of dies and forms and grinders since that will impact the quality of your final product.
Feel free to contact me, not about a job
, if you'd like to discuss further. Being a manufacturer is very different from being a retailer and your being a jobbing/manufactureing segment of what is a huge retailer can make your job both easier and more difficult.
I recommend you carry out your own QC check on the products. If they're coming from the factory in packaging then a 5% visual for what you can tell without opening the packaging (lock alignment being the focus, but general appearance, markings, general construction) can be done using the packaging you used on this knife. Pull about 1% from each shipment and test for lockup and heat treat and edge geometry and performance. If you have the partner factory track the lots of blades and the lots of knives the blades go into you'll be able to see the lots that have questionable heat treat and lockup you discover in your QC checks. Also, if you look at grinds or cast/molded parts you'll be able to see when the factory pushes their equipment too far before changeout of dies and forms and grinders since that will impact the quality of your final product.
Feel free to contact me, not about a job
, if you'd like to discuss further. Being a manufacturer is very different from being a retailer and your being a jobbing/manufactureing segment of what is a huge retailer can make your job both easier and more difficult.
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A tip for those who may be looking to try one of these knives. I found them in a aisle display of gift items, not in the normal knife area, or camping area. I was about to leave the store assuming they were not there when I happened to pass the display in the aisle. $3.87 on a card.
I went back to Walmart tonight to pick up the camo version I mentioned previously, and they had several more models in. They had the tanto mentioned in the OP which I got as well, plus a wood handled drop point model(it looked VERY much like it was intended to appeal to the "bushcraft" crowd), plus another model that I don't remember much about that you can either get standalone like these, or as part of a pack with a flashlight and something else.
First off, the 2 I got tonight match the first one I got in terms of very solid lockup, no blade play and such. The clip point camo model(the scales are metal, I assume aluminum) does not flip at all...like, literally, the flipper could not be there and it wouldn't make a difference. The pivot is VERY tight, not only does it not flip at all, you can't even partially open it with the thumbstuds and then flick it the rest of the way, you will have to open it entirely with the studs. Definitely needs the pivot adjusted to make the opening smoother. The edge was about the same as on the tan G10 model, not especially sharp but not totally dull either. The tanto model on the other hand, WOW. Aside from the solid lockup and no blade play, it also flips open really smoothly too! You won't be able to open it completely with the flipper, but flipper and a very slight wrist flick will lock it right up. It also came quite a bit sharper out of the box than the other 2, on par with budget Kershaws and stuff like that. I know the edge won't hold as well as Kershaws and stuff, but still, really remarkable for $4.
First off, the 2 I got tonight match the first one I got in terms of very solid lockup, no blade play and such. The clip point camo model(the scales are metal, I assume aluminum) does not flip at all...like, literally, the flipper could not be there and it wouldn't make a difference. The pivot is VERY tight, not only does it not flip at all, you can't even partially open it with the thumbstuds and then flick it the rest of the way, you will have to open it entirely with the studs. Definitely needs the pivot adjusted to make the opening smoother. The edge was about the same as on the tan G10 model, not especially sharp but not totally dull either. The tanto model on the other hand, WOW. Aside from the solid lockup and no blade play, it also flips open really smoothly too! You won't be able to open it completely with the flipper, but flipper and a very slight wrist flick will lock it right up. It also came quite a bit sharper out of the box than the other 2, on par with budget Kershaws and stuff like that. I know the edge won't hold as well as Kershaws and stuff, but still, really remarkable for $4.
gonebad395
Ironworker!
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- May 19, 2015
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Just got one of these for the fact I read about them here. Have to say for 4.00 you guys did good. I'm going to keep it in the glove box of the truck as a just in case knife. The scales are comfortable and the lock is sold. Again good job I've spent 4 dollars on less quality things. Keep them coming can't wait to see what you do next.
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Hahah I found them! Thanks Walmart. Seriously though, for $4, what a great stocking stuffer.
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I find it interesting that people consider a liner lock that sticks out, what, like 2-3mm from the scale a safety hazard but consider frame locks "hard use" or "over built" when there's no handle and you're hand is supposed to be a safety feature keeping the knife closed, when in reality it creates the same issue this knife has. Not to mention the fact that many frame locks have lock bar cutouts that leave less titanium (a softer material) supporting the lock than most steel liner locks.
gonebad395
Ironworker!
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I just lent the one I bought to a guy who buys 20 dollar knives and beats the shit outta them in a week. So I figured this will be a test.
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Here is a pretty good review of the knife I think you guys are discussing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSkFhemzZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWSkFhemzZk
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Saw these at Walmart. Couldn't believe the price based off looks. Gonna pick a couple up to practice sharpening and stropping!
If he uses like I do, it should come back with the edge severly destroyed, or sharpened to a toothpick.
gonebad395
Ironworker!
- Joined
- May 19, 2015
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I did it as a test this guy's ruff on blades so we shall see I'm interested
I picked up one of the Buck lookalike lockbacks and have to say I'm happy with the purchase. The fit and finish is bad, I wish I could sugarcoat it but there's no way around it. Uneven grind, splotchy paint job on the handle scales, a drop of glue that's dried on the handle, a millimeter gap at the base of the lockbar, and a pin that sticks out unevenly on the handle. About what I'd expect for the price. The aesthetics and ergonomics are quite good though, and I like the blade profile. I bought it simply to practice my sharpening skills and to use as a beater knife. Factory edge is decent out of the box, noticeable better than my $175 Swamp Rat. Lockup appears solid with some slight side to side play but I haven't tested it. Overall I think it's a fun little knife to play around with but I can't see myself using over my other knives. I'm just impressed that they were able to produce these at this price point.
Does anyone know if these lockbacks are made by the same factory as the flippers discussed in the original post?
Does anyone know if these lockbacks are made by the same factory as the flippers discussed in the original post?
I don't know about the factory, but I know at my Walmart, the Buck lookalikes are a different brand than the ones we've been talking about. Doesn't necessarily mean it's from a different factory, but based on how you describe the knife(uneven grind, splotchy paint, uneven pin) I'd say it's probably either a diff factory or at least made to diff standards.