Ridiculously steep factory angles?

Ankerson said:
It's usually best to think about the intended use before picking a knife. :)

I wouldn't pick a Busse NMFBM as a kitchen knife nor use a thin ground custom to chop with.

Different types of knives for different uses.
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I chose the 511 because of its shape, size, and SR-101 's incredible properties. I will use it for anything a mid-size knife will be expected to do (within reason, of course) once I get it sharp and can keep it sharp. :)
 
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Hadji Flip Me Over said:
I chose the 511 because of its shape, size, and SR-101 's incredible properties. I will use it for anything a knife will be expected to do (within reason, of course) once I get it sharp and can keep it sharp.
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SR-101 is just 52100.....

I have a few Swamp Rats here in SR-101.

Nothing really special about it except it's a nice upgrade from 1095.
 
Shawn7656 said:
Higher angles stay sharp longer, and therefore work better for the "less-than-inclined-to-sharpen" crowd.
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Lower angles stay sharp longer. They cut more material when the edge is sharp, they cut more materials when the edge is dull. The steel wears at whatever rate the hardness and carbide volume dictates, the amount of stuff you can cut is controlled by the geometry.

In this, thick edges are a weird solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Thick, obtuse edges survive more force, but they also require more force to cut. If you are going to cut, then use a tool desined to cut. The job will be done faster and with less effort, meaning less wear and tear on both the user and the tool.
 
hardheart said:
Lower angles stay sharp longer. They cut more material when the edge is sharp, they cut more materials when the edge is dull. The steel wears at whatever rate the hardness and carbide volume dictates, the amount of stuff you can cut is controlled by the geometry.

In this, thick edges are a weird solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Thick, obtuse edges survive more force, but they also require more force to cut. If you are going to cut, then use a tool desined to cut. The job will be done faster and with less effort, meaning less wear and tear on both the user and the tool.
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:D:thumbup:

I think that the edge on a knife should be just thick enough to hold up under its intended use. No thicker.
 
hardheart said:
Lower angles stay sharp longer. They cut more material when the edge is sharp, they cut more materials when the edge is dull. The steel wears at whatever rate the hardness and carbide volume dictates, the amount of stuff you can cut is controlled by the geometry.

In this, thick edges are a weird solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. Thick, obtuse edges survive more force, but they also require more force to cut. If you are going to cut, then use a tool desined to cut. The job will be done faster and with less effort, meaning less wear and tear on both the user and the tool.
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Very truthful. I think a lot of people abuse knives though; or else we wouldn't have that "DON'T EVER LET SOMEONE BORROW YOUR KNIFE!!" thread lol. I definitely agree with using the right tool for the job, but I've seen knives used for WAY more than they were designed to do haha
 
Perhaps we've reached a historical milestone where knives have become tools with more than one use, and it's time to split them up. Flathead vs. Phillips-head. Ball-peen vs. sledge vs. dead blow. Crosscut vs ripcut vs coping vs. miter. Slicing vs. combat/survival/what have you.

There's always a certain charm to stick to traditional ideas and values, so maybe it's time to come up with a new term for the slab-of-really-hard-steel-with-a-handle-with-one-edge-reasonably-sharp-but-not-enough-to-slice-effortlessly tool?... or maybe it already exists and some aren't keen on accepting it?
 
uyotg said:
Perhaps we've reached a historical milestone where knives have become tools with more than one use, and it's time to split them up. Flathead vs. Phillips-head. Ball-peen vs. sledge vs. dead blow. Crosscut vs ripcut vs coping vs. miter. Slicing vs. combat/survival/what have you.

There's always a certain charm to stick to traditional ideas and values, so maybe it's time to come up with a new term for the slab-of-really-hard-steel-with-a-handle-with-one-edge-reasonably-sharp-but-not-enough-to-slice-effortlessly tool?... or maybe it already exists and some aren't keen on accepting it?
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Knives were always multi-function, just look at a knife block and the cleaver to the side. I don't know why the bayonet isn't more popular with this crowd. Many were case hardened, these things not only were not sharp, they were not meant to be sharpened. The bayonets of the last several decades have been multi-function with wire cutters, saws, hollow handles, and legitimately issued to military forces world-wide. Also the similarly styled Glock 78/81. Military issue machetes and goloks wouldn't work, too thin and usable.
 
idaho said:
And in most cases with folders and outdoor knives we get edge much too thick. :)
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Tell me about it. And I'm not edge obsessed or anything in the slightest, either. You'll find my knives at dry shaving sharp or just under--never hair whittling mirrors. But what I DO care a lot about is my edge angle and blade geometry. And most factory blades consistently come too friggin' thick for me. It's not limited to the edges either--the whole darn blades are often thicker than I'd like.

I think that the industry/community as a whole may be focusing too much on steels and RC numbers rather than geometry. There's a reason why vintage knives cut so well in spite of their comparatively downright proletarian steel. It was still "cutlery grade" steel, with a good heat treatment...and the GEOMETRY was good! I see too many weird decorative grinds out there these days in thick stock that are getting in the way of what a knife is supposed to do--cut stuff. We shouldn't be looking at "how long can I go before sharpening this thing" so much as "how much more work can I do in X time with this knife, maintenance time included."
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Tell me about it. And I'm not edge obsessed or anything in the slightest, either. You'll find my knives at dry shaving sharp or just under--never hair whittling mirrors. But what I DO care a lot about is my edge angle and blade geometry. And most factory blades consistently come too friggin' thick for me. It's not limited to the edges either--the whole darn blades are often thicker than I'd like.

I think that the industry/community as a whole may be focusing too much on steels and RC numbers rather than geometry. There's a reason why vintage knives cut so well in spite of their comparatively downright proletarian steel. It was still "cutlery grade" steel, with a good heat treatment...and the GEOMETRY was good! I see too many weird decorative grinds out there these days in thick stock that are getting in the way of what a knife is supposed to do--cut stuff. We shouldn't be looking at "how long can I go before sharpening this thing" so much as "how much more work can I do in X time with this knife, maintenance time included."
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The reason why I have been carrying my reground PARA 2 in CTS-20CP a lot lately.
 
Ankerson said:
The reason why I have been carrying my reground PARA 2 in CTS-20CP a lot lately.
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My trusty Opinel No.8 Carbon has been following me around for months now. I've used it pretty darn hard, too!
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I honestly feel that too many companies are caving in to the folks on the 'net that beat a fine slicer with a hammer into an elm log then complain when the blade doesn't handle it. Whatever happened to cutting with knives? I'm all for batoning within reason but it's being taken to a stupid extreme by a lot of folks, and it's pushing the knife industry in a direction opposite from what yields truly exceptional performance under controlled and informed use. In my opinion, at least. I'm really not sure why so many models now have blades with thicker spines than what industrial beef-splitting cleavers used to have. It's a little excessive if you ask me. If it's thick enough to go through the hardened bones of a dead cow, I think that's about as thick as most blades need to go, realistically.:o Also, those old cleavers had broad flat-ground blades of pretty close to true taper, so the actual region doing the bulk of the cutting was much thinner than the actual spine thickness, so bear that thought in mind when envisioning my viewpoint above.
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Ya know, specifically because of your perspective, I've went back to my favorite tool, the machete. I've also started buying thinner, cheaper knives like Opinels, Svords, Moras, Victorinox....and honestly the only complaint I have is that I can't find a nice looking slicer in a more modern and durable set of materials for EDC. The Spyderco Chaparral is the closest I've seen in terms of width. And I also believe that a blade that is wide from edge to spine can translate to just as much durability as these heavy chucks of nearly blunt steel. The only machete I've ever broken from use/abuse was made from an old lawnmower blade, so it doesn't count. I've used Tramontinas that were 25+ years old to chop down trees. Better steels are a great thing....better cutters, I really have yet to see.
 
RemyKaze said:
Ya know, specifically because of your perspective, I've went back to my favorite tool, the machete. I've also started buying thinner, cheaper knives like Opinels, Svords, Moras, Victorinox....and honestly the only complaint I have is that I can't find a nice looking slicer in a more modern and durable set of materials for EDC. The Spyderco Chaparral is the closest I've seen in terms of width. And I also believe that a blade that is wide from edge to spine can translate to just as much durability as these heavy chucks of nearly blunt steel. The only machete I've ever broken from use/abuse was made from an old lawnmower blade, so it doesn't count. I've used Tramontinas that were 25+ years old to chop down trees. Better steels are a great thing....better cutters, I really have yet to see.
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Bingo!!! My thoughts 110%! :thumbup::thumbup:
 
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