RIP Stanley Williams

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That's right, I said it. Alot of people seem to be ecstatic at his execution, but I for one am not. I mourn his loss and feel sympathy for those who were closest to him.




Alot of you wonder why I would say this, and I feel it's only fair to explain myself. Alot of people see him as a murderous thug who founded one of the most violent and widespread gangs in the US today, who created a legacy of violence, of crime, of black on black genocide. Who murdered a group of innocent people for little than 100 dollars to support a drug habit. Did he do this ? Yes. But my take on what he did and who he was differs in one very critical aspect.




Alot of people think once a man has done wrong he should be punished and reviled for all times, they feel because he made a mistake he should be stripped of all rights as a human and suffer until his dying day. They forget that man isn't perfect, and that we all make mistakes, and that once a mistake is made, little can be done except to learn from it and try not to repeat it. As a friend, cousin, and nephew of men who are doing hard time, and who have done hard time, I see things very differently on this matter.




While everyone saw Stanley Williams as a monster, I saw him in a different light. I saw a man who like all men, made mistakes. The decisions he made to survive and gain respect living on the streets of LA ultimately cost him his freedom, and eventually his life. I saw a man who was able to finally realize what he had done, who he had become, and who was genuinely guilt stricken by the violent saga he and his fellow crips created, and went out of his way to redeem himself by undoing as much as he could, by showing kids what was waiting for them if they followed his footsteps, by doing what he had to do to keep children from sharing his fate. I saw a man who used his mistakes and went out of his way to show kids the ugly truth behind gang life, who made them understand the anatomy/mindframe of a gangster, and showed them the consequences of becoming one. I saw a man who gave his life as an ultimate reminder of what happens when you make the same decisions he made. I saw a man whose story will forever be used as a warning to today's youth of what happens when you live the "Thug Life." I sincerely believe that if a man does wrong, and he truly repents for his sins, then the powers that be will absolve him of any wrong doing, and his conscience and soul will be cleansed.




I"m sure that this won't change anyone's opinions, and I'm not trying to do that. But I have always had an admiration for men who once did alot of wrong, but repented and use their learnings as a lesson to those following, or thinking of following, in their footsteps. One of my long time friends and mentors, now doing hard time upstate, saved me in such a manner. Growing up (I first met him when I was 12) I admired him and wanted to be just like him, and he claims he'll "never forgive himself" for that as I came close to being just like him had he not opened up my eyes up to his world and motivated me to not end up like him. Many will see the execution of Stanley Williams as a fitting and well deserved punishment, but I will see his death as a lesson taught to the kids he was trying to reach. If his story deters a kid from joining a gang, or selling dope, or doing anything else that could land him in prison or a body bag, then that's one more kid that he will have saved. And when you think about it, that's truly all that mattered to him towards the end.




Andrew
 
What a load of crap. He didn't make "mistakes", he murdered people in cold blood at close range with a shotgun. He didn't write any children's books because he was contrite, he wrote them to create a false image of a noble, reformed man of peace so he could sucker people like you into taking on his cause and maybe saving his sorry a$$ from the needle. I hope he burns in hell.
 
All life has value, even Stanley Williams. Was his end the cumulation of his own Karma, or Justice? I don't know, but sincerely hope his next life will be better than this one was.
 
The Last Confederate said:
All life has value, even Stanley Williams. Was his end the cumulation of his own Karma, or Justice? I don't know, but sincerely hope his next life will be better than this one was.




A confessed,convicted murderer, he was laying a smoke screen to smooth his appeals. How many men have wrapped themselves in religion or do-good AFTER the fact ? The fact is ,he killed. The law says the death penalty could be applied. It was. He's gone .


Uncle Alan
 
Smooth Operator said:
While everyone saw Stanley Williams as a monster, I saw him in a different light. I saw a man who like all men, made mistakes. The decisions he made to survive and gain respect living on the streets of LA ultimately cost him his freedom, and eventually his life. I saw a man who was able to finally realize what he had done, who he had become, and who was genuinely guilt stricken by the violent saga he and his fellow crips created, and went out of his way to redeem himself by undoing as much as he could, by showing kids what was waiting for them if they followed his footsteps, by doing what he had to do to keep children from sharing his fate. I saw a man who used his mistakes and went out of his way to show kids the ugly truth behind gang life, who made them understand the anatomy/mindframe of a gangster, and showed them the consequences of becoming one. I saw a man who gave his life as an ultimate reminder of what happens when you make the same decisions he made. I saw a man whose story will forever be used as a warning to today's youth of what happens when you live the "Thug Life." I sincerely believe that if a man does wrong, and he truly repents for his sins, then the powers that be will absolve him of any wrong doing, and his conscience and soul will be cleansed.

HAVE YOUR EYES CHECKED AS SOON AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

Stanley Williams was a sociopathic sub human.

The man never accepted responsibility for his actions. He never admitted the murders, and he never repented. This "redemption" the media hyped was an illusion. If he had admitted the murders and expressed heartfelt remorse, then MAYBE his soul would have been cleansed. Now he's dealing with that.

He could have written a library full of books, and it would NEVER change the fact that he needlessly murdered four people.
 
Get your facts straight! And not the "facts" the Liberal Left Propaganda Machine,Hollywood chapter have been spewing.Tookie had little to do with forming the Crips,a minor figure in the East side part of this organization,they thought so little of him they even produced the murder weapon for the prosecution! :eek:
 
Smooth Operator said:
That's right, I said it. Alot of people seem to be ecstatic at his execution, but I for one am not. I mourn his loss and feel sympathy for those who were closest to him.

I'm sorry that he made the choices that he did. I'm sorry that an otherwise healthy individual was killed. I don't disagree with his paying the ultimate price. I'm sorry that people like you don't seem to remember his victims.

Alot of you wonder why I would say this, and I feel it's only fair to explain myself. Alot of people see him as a murderous thug who founded one of the most violent and widespread gangs in the US today, who created a legacy of violence, of crime, of black on black genocide. Who murdered a group of innocent people for little than 100 dollars to support a drug habit. Did he do this ? Yes. But my take on what he did and who he was differs in one very critical aspect.

Blah, blah, blah... That's the extent of your concern for his victims. One of them was a military veteran who served our country prior to his death. He was shot twice in the back while he lied defenseless on the floor. TW later laughed about the noises he made during his horrible death. The kid was lying on the floor of the storage room when he was shot both times at close range. TW's didn't have to kill Albert Owens for the $120.00 he got. Albert Owens suffered greatly before he died.

The Yang family were working in their back office the night that TW broke the door down and shot them down. It was a father, 76 y/o Yen-I Yang; a mother, 63 y/o Tsai-Shai Yang, and a daughter, 43 y/o Yee-Shen Lin. The Yang's son Robert heard the screaming and got to witness them "gasping and gurgling" as they fought for their last breaths. Yen-I was shot twice, once in the abdomen and once in the arm. His left arm was shredded, his ribs were fractured, his spleen, kidney, bowel, and large vessels were shattered. The other shot gun wound was to his lower left chest causing much the same damage. Yen-I Yang suffered greatly before he died.

Tsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. One was to her tailbone. You see, they found her in a bowing position as if she was forced to bow before her death. The other wound was to her abdomen. She was found by her son Robert gurgling and fighting to breath. Tsai-Shai suffered greatly before she died.

Yee-Chen was shot in the face from a few feet away. She survived to make it through the ambulance ride. Yee-Chen suffered greatly before she died. All of them suffered terribly and unnecessarily.

Alot of people think once a man has done wrong he should be punished and reviled for all times, they feel because he made a mistake he should be stripped of all rights as a human and suffer until his dying day. They forget that man isn't perfect, and that we all make mistakes, and that once a mistake is made, little can be done except to learn from it and try not to repeat it. As a friend, cousin, and nephew of men who are doing hard time, and who have done hard time, I see things very differently on this matter.

"We all make mistakes?" You make it sound like he had an accidental fender bender on the interstate. This wasn't a mistake. The man shot these people at close range. He didn't regret the first murder enough to stop. No, he continued. There are some "mistakes" that separate us from society. We are thinking individuals who know well in advance what the consequence will be for our actions. If you do something henious, you will be separated from the rest of us. You damn well should be punished. If you intentionally murder four innocent people who are not a threat to you, you deserve to die.

While everyone saw Stanley Williams as a monster, I saw him in a different light. I saw a man who like all men, made mistakes. The decisions he made to survive and gain respect living on the streets of LA ultimately cost him his freedom, and eventually his life. I saw a man who was able to finally realize what he had done, who he had become, and who was genuinely guilt stricken by the violent saga he and his fellow crips created, and went out of his way to redeem himself by undoing as much as he could, by showing kids what was waiting for them if they followed his footsteps, by doing what he had to do to keep children from sharing his fate. I saw a man who used his mistakes and went out of his way to show kids the ugly truth behind gang life, who made them understand the anatomy/mindframe of a gangster, and showed them the consequences of becoming one. I saw a man who gave his life as an ultimate reminder of what happens when you make the same decisions he made. I saw a man whose story will forever be used as a warning to today's youth of what happens when you live the "Thug Life." I sincerely believe that if a man does wrong, and he truly repents for his sins, then the powers that be will absolve him of any wrong doing, and his conscience and soul will be cleansed.

There you go with "mistakes" again. :rolleyes: There was no mistake. He intended to do what he did. How did murdering four non-violent, vulnerable people gain him street respect? You shoot a seated woman in the face, and you win admiration? :rolleyes: I'm so sorry that the "choices" he made caused him to lose his "freedom, and eventually his life." If he was "genuinely guilt stricken" why didn't he apologize for the despicable murders he committed. He took that to his grave. That is not atonement. So he wrote some books, it gets damn boring in prison. What the hell else did he have to do? Did he apologize for his crimes? NO.
"I saw a man who gave his life as an ultimate reminder of what happens when you make the same decisions he made."
I had to quote that because it made me so damn angry. He "gave" his life. He didn't give a damn thing. He was strapped to a table and stuck with some needles. There was no voluntary sacrifice on his end. He looked down at his body as he was strapped to the table as if he couldn't believe his predicament. You see, Tookie Williams understood his own circumstance. He just couldn't understand Mr. Owen's or the Yang family's. Better yet, he didn't care.
"I sincerely believe that if a man does wrong, and he truly repents for his sins, then the powers that be will absolve him of any wrong doing, and his conscience and soul will be cleansed."
That's special. He didn't repent. He can now take the whole ball of wax up with the man upstairs.

But I have always had an admiration for men who once did alot of wrong, but repented and use their learnings as a lesson to those following, or thinking of following, in their footsteps.

So do I. What does that have to do with the murderous thug Tookie Williams? Tookie William's death will represent to other wanna-be gang bangers that there are consequences for a life of murder and thuggery. I'm okay with that.

Why don't you go find someone deserving to honor. There are plenty of amazing people out there to immortalize. Tookie Williams isn't one of them.
 
It's a sad and somber occation when a rabid dog has to be put down. But it has to be done.

-Bob
 
Y'know, he didn't actually found the Crips. He joined them a few years after they'd got going. Anyways, after he shotgunned those people, some of the other Crips gave evidence to the police - apparently they felt he was a bad egg. In fact, they shanked him in prison.

Uh - he didn't "give his life," he was executed by the state. Giving implies choice. If his death serves as an object lesson, it does so at the behest of the state, and is an argument for the death penalty. He didn't choose to give his life, in fact he was whining about it to the end.

Morale of the story: Do bad things, get pwned by the Man.
 
Even the most evil people can have compassion. I've seen films of Hitler laughing and playing with his dog. Does that mean that he was a good guy deep down inside? Should we free Manson cause he did his time? Does Osoma Bin Laden deserve mercy? Not only no, but **** NO!!! This guy was no different.

Edited out foul language. Please refrain from using such language while in the Community Forum.
K.V. Collucci
Community Mod.
 
Smooth Operator said:
That's right, I said it. Alot of people seem to be ecstatic at his execution, but I for one am not. I mourn his loss and feel sympathy for those who were closest to him.




Alot of you wonder why I would say this, and I feel it's only fair to explain myself. Alot of people see him as a murderous thug who founded one of the most violent and widespread gangs in the US today, who created a legacy of violence, of crime, of black on black genocide. Who murdered a group of innocent people for little than 100 dollars to support a drug habit. Did he do this ? Yes. But my take on what he did and who he was differs in one very critical aspect.




Alot of people think once a man has done wrong he should be punished and reviled for all times, they feel because he made a mistake he should be stripped of all rights as a human and suffer until his dying day. They forget that man isn't perfect, and that we all make mistakes, and that once a mistake is made, little can be done except to learn from it and try not to repeat it. As a friend, cousin, and nephew of men who are doing hard time, and who have done hard time, I see things very differently on this matter.




While everyone saw Stanley Williams as a monster, I saw him in a different light. I saw a man who like all men, made mistakes. The decisions he made to survive and gain respect living on the streets of LA ultimately cost him his freedom, and eventually his life. I saw a man who was able to finally realize what he had done, who he had become, and who was genuinely guilt stricken by the violent saga he and his fellow crips created, and went out of his way to redeem himself by undoing as much as he could, by showing kids what was waiting for them if they followed his footsteps, by doing what he had to do to keep children from sharing his fate. I saw a man who used his mistakes and went out of his way to show kids the ugly truth behind gang life, who made them understand the anatomy/mindframe of a gangster, and showed them the consequences of becoming one. I saw a man who gave his life as an ultimate reminder of what happens when you make the same decisions he made. I saw a man whose story will forever be used as a warning to today's youth of what happens when you live the "Thug Life." I sincerely believe that if a man does wrong, and he truly repents for his sins, then the powers that be will absolve him of any wrong doing, and his conscience and soul will be cleansed.




I"m sure that this won't change anyone's opinions, and I'm not trying to do that. But I have always had an admiration for men who once did alot of wrong, but repented and use their learnings as a lesson to those following, or thinking of following, in their footsteps. One of my long time friends and mentors, now doing hard time upstate, saved me in such a manner. Growing up (I first met him when I was 12) I admired him and wanted to be just like him, and he claims he'll "never forgive himself" for that as I came close to being just like him had he not opened up my eyes up to his world and motivated me to not end up like him. Many will see the execution of Stanley Williams as a fitting and well deserved punishment, but I will see his death as a lesson taught to the kids he was trying to reach. If his story deters a kid from joining a gang, or selling dope, or doing anything else that could land him in prison or a body bag, then that's one more kid that he will have saved. And when you think about it, that's truly all that mattered to him towards the end.




Andrew

Blah, bla, bla...

He's just another murderous 'unt who thought he could get over on the system by writing shitty childrens books.

I'm glad Cali said toodles to Tookie.
 
...they feel because he made a mistake he should be stripped of all rights as a human and suffer until his dying day. They forget that man isn't perfect, and that we all make mistakes, and that once a mistake is made, little can be done except to learn from it and try not to repeat it.

I would like to help them "not to repeat it", by putting them down like rabid dogs. At least the dogs were victims of a terrible desease and were innocent of intent; these savages consciously premeditated cold blooded murder. There is nothing for them to learn, no mistake to correct, they are simply defective and dangerous failures that should be tossed into grinders and recycled as pig slop.

n2s
 
William's life had value in that he served as a bad example for others not to follow. In this we are enriched.........

I for one don't need this type of enrichment nor, I'm sure, did his victims. Be sad for his passing all you desire. I however will not mourn his death. That is for others closer to him and far more blindly compassionate than I. I prefer the comfort of distance and cold despassionate concern punctuated by the sighs of relief from victim's families that waited far too long for justice and a modicum of closure.

If repentance, contrition, and a truly changed outlook with a desire to disuade the youth of today from gang association were truly evident then collusion with criminal investigators to eliminate the Cripps would have been forthcoming. But "Not a snitch" Williams chose the gang's allegiance and stuck solidly to their ways - omerta of the foulest degree. Contrition I saw not. Nor did 25 years of legal wrangling show a chink in the prosecution's case. Ask any of the death row guards if Williams was the ideal prisoner and changed social avenging Nobel nominee the press portrayed him as.

Schwarzenegger was on target with the reasons for his denial. Justice, albeit delayed, has triumphed.
 
Well smooth operator,I'm not out to change your mind as I feel how I feel and so do you.I cannot sympathize with "tookie" or his supporters.As usual the victims are all but forgotten in all this media circus.Stanley was a bad man,and he committed unforgiveable crimes.If you must feel sorry for people,you should really give it to those that are really deserving like the crime victims.If he had any positive influence on kids to stay away from gangs,that is good,but does not even come close to paying the debts that are owed.The World,our society,and taxpayers are rid of him,justice has been properly served.The End
 
Tookie was shown sympathy and compassion by use of lethal injection.

I would have much preferred use of a shotgun at close range.

Hell awaits Tookie, hell awaits..............................
 
I won't repeat some of my thoughts on this, as they have been well said here by others. jsmatos has, as usual, summed things up concisely and thoughtfully.

Smooth Operator said:
While everyone saw Stanley Williams as a monster, I saw him in a different light. I saw a man who like all men, made mistakes. The decisions he made to survive and gain respect living on the streets of LA ultimately cost him his freedom, and eventually his life.

This last part really gets me though. You write this as though he had no choice in his the path his life took because of he grew up in the ghetto. It discredits all of the good, honest people that grew up in the same neighborhood and didn't become murderers.
 
Ok, I understand your views, I'm sorry for offending all of you with my view on SW, and I'm not going to try and argue or anything, but well, not to be rude, but it's obvious you all don't personally know or have a kinship with anyone who's doing/done time. If you did, you would understand. I'm not saying that to be rude or to argue, I'm just saying that when you personally know these men, and you know their stories, (which usually vary but in a way are all the same) I guess over time you just see them differently. I guess it's just hard to explain to you guys.




For what it's worth, I'm an avid reader and writer, and with that you're able to tell what someone was feeling and what he was trying to convey when reading their work. I sifted through a few of his books back in my PCML days, and when I read them, I honestly felt as if he were making a whole hearted effort to reach out to kids, and to explain how gangs think and operate and expose the true colors of thugs, which strips them of their seemingly hardcore and ruthless image (this can be viewed as a form of treachery by his fellow gang members, for those who accuse him of adhering to his old ways all the way until death)




Um, I don't know what to say, I guess I'm too compassionate for my own good, and um, well I guess I need to change that somehow because you all have shown me that it can be a bad thing. I'm truly sorry guys and I hope you can forgive me.




Andrew
 
Smooth Operator said:
Ok, I understand your views, I'm sorry for offending all of you with my view on SW, and I'm not going to try and argue or anything, ... Um, I don't know what to say, I guess I'm too compassionate for my own good ... I'm truly sorry guys and I hope you can forgive me.


You did absolutely nothing wrong here at all. You expressed your opinions. You did so in a very nicely-written post. There's nothing wrong with that.

What you found out is that

A) Other people have other opinions on the matter

B) Some of those people can not express their opinions as nicely and politely and rationally as you expressed your opinions.

You don't have anything to ask forgiveness for.
 
Smooth Operator said:
Ok, I understand your views, I'm sorry for offending all of you with my view on SW, and I'm not going to try and argue or anything, but well, not to be rude, but it's obvious you all don't personally know or have a kinship with anyone who's doing/done time. If you did, you would understand. I'm not saying that to be rude or to argue, I'm just saying that when you personally know these men, and you know their stories, (which usually vary but in a way are all the same) I guess over time you just see them differently. I guess it's just hard to explain to you guys.

There's a big difference in a crook getting caught robbing a 7-11. His mistake didn't hurt anyone and nothing was lost. Tookie Williams killed at least four people without remorse at the time.

I'm sure he was sorry he did it after the verdict was read. Or at least sorry he got caught. But all the "I'm sorries" in the world won't bring those people back and won't fix the voids in people's lives that he created.

Trying to keep kids away from the gang life is a noble cause, but that doesn't fix the damage either.

To that end, his execution doesn't fix anything either. But it was the only deserving end.
 
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