RIP Stanley Williams

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Gollnick said:
I absolutely hate this "closure" thing.

My father died of a heart arrhythmia. Whom shall we execute so that I can have my "closure?"

My mother died of cancer. How do I "get closure" on that?

This idea that you need to see the death of the person who killed your loved one so that you can "get closure" is not a American idea at all. "Closure" is not what our justice system is about at all. In fact, as it has come to be used in this context, this word "closure" has become a politically-correct euphemism for REVENGE. And that's not a paradigm that has been traditional in America and not one I think we want to invite in.

In some countries, if you are found guilty of killing my relative and sentenced to execution, I can personally have the "honor" of pulling the trigger. In fact, in such countries, it is not unusual for such a criminal trial to be followed by a sort of civil hearing to determine which of the victim's relatives get the "honor." That's the ultimate in "closure" isn't it? Do you want that?

Shortly after Tookie's execution, there was a press conference in which members of the news media who had been selected to witness the exection gave their reports. One commented on how cramped the gallery had been with news reporters, victim's families, the State's official witnesses, and Tookie's invited guests -- quite a crowd.

Several years ago, there was an execution in some state -- I don't remember which. Again, one of just three reporters who had been selected to witness that execution commented on how cramped the witness room was. He went on to explain that when this facility had been built decades ago, the witness room was built to hold six people because state law required six witnesses selected from the jury pool -- just six witnesses and those randomly-selected from the jury pool. Today, they still had those six plus victim's families, the condemned's guests, and a state judge had ordered that the media be allowed though later limited his ruling to just three selected reporters when the Warden protested that the room simply couldn't accomodate any more. In the past, anyone wanting "closure" from that execution, wanting to know that it took place, wanting to savor the flavor of their revenge, would have to settle for six signatures of unknown citizens; that's all the "closure" you got. Today, we've come to think that somehow it's the victim's "right" to have this "closure" -- let's call it what it is: revenge.

It's a culture of revenge. You see this in some cultures and societies and countries. Someone disgraces someone else's sister, so the brother kills the man to restore the family honor, as revenge. But now the first family is dishonored and so someone from that family kills two from the second as revenge, to "get closure." Of course, the second family now has to extract its revenge against the first, to "get its closure." Of course, there's no "closure" in this at all.

In Western culture, we have a strong tradition of executions carried out by the state, not about revenge, not about the victim at all.

Who killed Tookie? Has the name been reported? You'd think that would be a very interesting detail. You'd think that any of the "talk" shows would love to have that person on. Who is it? We don't know and we never will. It was an unnamed state employee, an agent of the state who did his/her assigned task from behind a curtain. Why? Because this execution was not an act of vengence, it was not a personal thing at all. It was not about "closure" for the victim's families.

Hopefully, the victim's families had already found their closure apart from Tookie's death, the same way I had to find my closure for the deaths of my parents.
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Total B.S.
 
Cougar Allen said:
The closure issue is not about revenge, it's about finally not having to participate in the legal struggle any more. I really feel for families who aren't allowed to just deal with their grief and their loss of a loved one -- they are forced to deal with the police and the courts and the media and go on struggling for justice on and on for an inhumanly prolonged period. Now that's finally going to end for them soon -- that will be closure.
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Totally agree.
 
Mudflap said:
Total B.S.
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Your insight into the subject is astounding, Mr. Mudflap.

Thank you for sharing your profound and thoughtful observation. I know that the depth of your astute cogitation on this issue has expanded my thinking.
 
wolfmann601 said:
Tookie was shown sympathy and compassion by use of lethal injection.

I would have much preferred use of a shotgun at close range.
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Sure, but an empty shotgun...Beat him to death with it.:mad:
 
glockman99 said:
Sure, but an empty shotgun...Beat him to death with it.:mad:
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Now why take the chance of chipping or denting the wood stock, or scratching the fine bluing? I'd much rather give him a shot in the tailbone area like he did to one of his victims, and let him suffer until dead. May take a few days for the infection to do it though... (Yes, I do take my REVENGE in a rather Old Testament-y way)
 
And let's not forget Tookie's continuing contribution to our society from beyond the grave. This reformed, peace loving gang members homies have sworn to kill a L.E.O. in retribution for his exectuion. Does it really take getting hit in the face with the B.S. before you believe that that's what it is? Tookie was a cold blooded murderer till the day he died. After conviction he said and did whatever it took (except helping law enforcement) to extend his existance. Maybe at next years Academy Awards the Hollywood Elite that admired him so much can give him a posthumous lifetime service award for the act he put on for so long. It sure beats most of the crap they are prodcuing these days. Maybe Michael Moore can pause the audience for a moment of silence in remembrance of their fallen hero.

As for the above shotgun idea, forget the beating, I would have impaled him on it.
 
Sorry , Smooth Operator , can't say I feel the way you do on this one. As others have stated, I don't think he "gave"his life for this cause.And I very much doubt he would have found the wrong in his ways had he not been caught.I think you are giving him way too much credit.There are too many people who want to make justice the criminal.It's very easy to find God and repent when you are living in a little cell. If people who have done wrong and truly are sorry for their crimes, why don't more of these people turn themselves' in ?Why not forego the trial and the appeals if you are truly repentant?Why not take your punishment without objection if you really want to make right by your wrongs?If someone did that, I might be inclined to believe them. I don't remember anyone doing that lately, though.
What makes these people think they have the right to injure and kill for what "they" want instead of trying to EARN it? Sorry, I'm not buying what you are selling.
 
let's not get carried away with what he did to deter children from gangs...he was not the first gang member/murderer executed for for thier heinous actions that they chose to do,as a matter of fact I'd wager he knew folks that had gone to prison because of violence before he made his awful decisions,and it didn't stop him.Gangs are a big problem and people like williams are not the solution to them,no matter what they come up with after they've spent 25 years trying to hold onto thier lives, what they thought was thiers to take from others.The death penalty was appropriate here.
 
The only thing wrong with TW's death is that it took 25 years to get justice for the inoccent victims and the familys.

smooth operator, you need to grow up and stop paying any attention to the likes of Mike Farrell and company of wacko liberals.

I think Williams got off very easy, in the old teastament the punishment would fit the crime. Williams did not have to lay on the floor dying in agony because a shotgun blast blew his guts apart.

He should have!
 
Shoot him in the ass with a shotgun, grind him up into dogfood and apportion him to the vics families, to feed their pets. That's all he is good for.

I glad the vics' families got justice finally after 20+years. It should not have taken that long. If only his vics were armed, they could have shot him down like the dog he is 20 years ago.

Not closure, not revenge, but justice, and an end to worry and unsurety about whether they would receive justice.

I agree with SO that here is a man who made "mistakes". Maybe we made a "mistake" in executing him too. But we all make mistakes. Since we are human, I guess we should continue to make more of these "mistakes" (executing murderers).

I hope he put on a good show at his execution. Should have put it on reality TV and on the internet.:D
 
Stanley "Big Tookie" Williams is an original member and co-founder of the first Crips street gang in Los Angeles. Originally called The West Side Crips, he combined his gang with Raymond "Truck" Washington's East Side Cribs (sometimes called The Baby Cribs or The Avenue Cribs, after an older street gang called the Avenues and the Crib member's young age) to form The Crips. The name "Crip" came from L.A. newspapers and also street slang of the time as "crippin" was used as slang to describe various crimes, such as robberies, theft, and muggings.

The new gang was created mainly as a form of protection from other, smaller and unorganized gangs in the area, and also to consolidate the black youth into a cohesive political unit. Washington wanted to reform The Black Panthers into his own vision and borrowed TBP's rigid militaristic rank structure, rules and classification of members. He also instituted a particular style of dress, which later formed into the wearing of specific colors to denote gang allegiance.

In 1979, Stanley Williams entered a 7-11 store in Pomona. Behind the counter was a 26 year old clerk named Albert Owens. Williams, armed with a 12-gauge shotgun, forced Owens into the store's walk in freezer. Williams shot Owens twice, killing him. Williams then robbed a family run hotel on Century Blvd in L.A. Again, using a 12 gauge shotgun, he killed Tsai-Shen Yang, her husband Yen-Yi Yang, and their daughter, Ye Chen Ling. All were shot multiple times in the head and body.

In 1981, Williams was found guilty of murder and sentenced to death. Williams, while on death row at San Quentin State Prison, supposedley wrote a series of children's books renouncing gang life. He has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and has been awarded the President's Call For Service Award. He also issued an apology for his actions in forming The Crips, but still refuses to mention the four murders he was found guilty of. He ends his apology with the word "amani" which is Swahili for peace. Swahili is commonly used among black prisoners as a "secret" language to protect their self interests in prison.
Currently, he is said to be a high ranking member of the CCO (Consolidated Crips Organization) along with other CCO Members in Corcoran State Prison. The CCO is a coalition of the various Crip Sets that were once fighting each other. The CCO is also primarily prison based, and was feuding with old-school BGF (Black Guerilla Family) members, and may be feuding with 415-KUMI/A.N.O. (African Nation Organization) members; both black prison gangs.

Williams supporters include rapper Snoop Dogg, a Rollin' 20's Long Beach Crip member, and Jesse Jackson, a known affiliate with The Black P-Stone Rangers/El Rukn Chicago based street gang.

Of all the hype with his books, according to Bookscan, only 334 have ever been sold....

--dan
 
Soory for not crying a river, but he was a piece of crap that should have been executed years ago. All the people that think that his writing a few books makes up for murdering four people can kiss my ass.
 
It's easy to change when you're up against the wall.

I respect those who change because they know it was the right thing to do, not because they were on death row. I respect them because I know how hard it can be, because I had to do it myself.

Life is all about choices and consequence. You get what you get, and the lucky (or unlucky) ones get what they deserve.

IMO Tookie deserved a hell of a lot worse than the Mickey Mouse punishment he recieved.
 
SYK said:
Shoot him in the ass with a shotgun, grind him up into dogfood and apportion him to the vics families, to feed their pets. That's all he is good for.
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I would not feed that to any of my pets... nor anyone elses...
 
Gollnick said:
Your insight into the subject is astounding, Mr. Mudflap.

Thank you for sharing your profound and thoughtful observation. I know that the depth of your astute cogitation on this issue has expanded my thinking.
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Just because he doesn't share your views you don't have to sarcastically dismiss it. As short and to the point as it is it's still his opinion.

I'm contemplating locking this thread down or maybe moving it to W&C. I have to read through the whole thread again to determine the best course of action for all involved.
 
It saddens me to think that this country has sunk so far that a murderous thug like williams would manage to find people to support him in his attempts to escape justice.
 
Triton said:
It saddens me to think that this country has sunk so far that a murderous thug like williams would manage to find people to support him in his attempts to escape justice.
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If I could give ya chicklets, I would. Great post, that sums it all up, IMO.
 
Survey says......................lock down. Sorry guys, but I don't like seeing otherwise rational people get crazy over this. It's done, it's over, move on.
 
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