RIP Stanley Williams

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Problem solved! Too bad he had to sit on death row for years before he finally bought the farm, what a gigantic waste of time/tax dollars/public resources etc...:mad:
 
Good riddance to him. I don't give a monkey's nut what he did after he murdered 4 people. Maybe God'll let Satan give Tookie a glass of ice water every couple eons or so for the "redemption" work he did in prison. Kudos to the Governator for not giving in to the pansy liberal pressure.
 
Hey Smooth Operator
Would you be so compassionate if the four people he killed
was your mother, father, sister, and girlfriend?

I didnt think so, dumbass.
 
You need to get out of your naive world more often...

He didn't make mistakes he was a murderer. Regardless of what he had done later in life he never took responsibility for the actions of his past and never repented, or apologized for his crime.

Your are a product of a blameless society. You have the delusion that if you do something horrible wrong somehow doing a bunch of right things after that should make you square with the world. SW made choices and they were bad ones. No one forced him into a drug habit. No one forced him to found the crips, no one forced him to pull the trigger, those were choices that HE ALONE MADE AND HAS TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. Regardless of what Jesse Jackson says. He too is full of Bullshiiit.

Read what you wrote to the four families of the people SW shot down with a shotgun. He was a killer. He needed to take responsibility for that, He did not. The State of California made him take responsibility.

The old saying says " If you live by the gun you will die by it"

This is the most moronic stupid thread I have ever read..what if it was your family???


thumbdn: :barf:
 
Smooth Operator said:
Ok, I understand your views, I'm sorry for offending all of you with my view on SW, and I'm not going to try and argue or anything, but well, not to be rude, but it's obvious you all don't personally know or have a kinship with anyone who's doing/done time. If you did, you would understand. I'm not saying that to be rude or to argue, I'm just saying that when you personally know these men, and you know their stories, (which usually vary but in a way are all the same) I guess over time you just see them differently. I guess it's just hard to explain to you guys.
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You're right. You are the only one on this board who has a kinship with someone doing, or who has done, time. :rolleyes: That's ridiculous. I'm certain that many members on this board have had friends or relatives who have been in trouble with the law. Half the people I knew growing up were in and out of juvie or jail (depending upon their age.) One of my best childhood friends spent half of his youth behind bars before he was killed in a car accident (also related to violence). I've heard all kinds of "stories." He, especially, had tons of them. In the end, I cared about him and hated his behavior. I understood, each time, why they put him behind bars. I didn't feel sorry for him. I was intelligent enough to realize that those people, my friends, were making bad choices. Another friend was jailed for a car jacking. I grew up with him too. All I could think about was the poor victim who stopped to be helpful. What an awful experience he must have had. I was not taken in by these characters. They were very close friends of mine, and I knew that they were bad eggs. If any one of them had murdered, I would have hated them for it. My friend who died in the car accident was playing chicken with one of his enemies. He overcompensated and went into the lane of oncoming traffic hitting and killing a young lawyer who had three little ones at home. It took me years to get through the confusion that included sadness for his loss, sadness for the lawyer who died unnecessarily, sadness for the lawyer's family, and anger over his selfishness. I felt a LOT of anger.

Um, I don't know what to say, I guess I'm too compassionate for my own good, and um, well I guess I need to change that somehow because you all have shown me that it can be a bad thing. I'm truly sorry guys and I hope you can forgive me.
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There's no reason to apologize for your viewpoints. I totally disagree with them, but I disagree with a lot of people. I absolutley do not agree that you are more compassionate than the other forumites in this thread. I have yet to see you express any real sadness over the lives that he took. It seems to me that you had a few run ins with the law yourself, or came close. So instead of realizing the error of your ways, you are still taking up for the bad guys. Perhaps you feel too much of a kinship with them.
 
You're certainly entitled to your opinion; but, IMHO, Dookie Williams was allowed to live way too long at the taxpayer's expense.
 
zulutime said:
Hey Smooth Operator
Would you be so compassionate if the four people he killed
was your mother, father, sister, and girlfriend?

I didnt think so, dumbass.
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Disagree with the statement. That is fair game. You should not use Ad-Hominem attacks. They just show a lack of ability to express oneself logically.:foot:
Ed. for typo
 
It is said that when we are confronted by a mad dog, we should first protect ourselves, and then feel sorry for the dog.
 
Does anybody really believe that Tookie would have undergone his "epiphany" had he not been caught and convicted of his crimes?
 
A man who would shoot a family of three innocent people as well as a young man is no one to be revered under any circumstance what so ever.

Bottom line. The world I live in and enjoy is better off without people who would even consider such a thing otherwise do it. There is no reason to revere those types of actions or the people who committ them and no real way to defend them as far as I am concerned no matter what the circumstances or environment.


I am glad my world is different than yours. I am also glad Tookie made peace with his maker, but the results of his actions here were and still are not a good thing for the human race no matter how you try to spin it.
(I hope you learn the difference between right and wrong good and bad one day very soon.)
 
The original poster of this thread probably knows the difference between right and wrong. Being happy about the execution of a human being, no matter how guilty, leans further toward a lack of understanding between right and wrong, imo. Smooth Operator never said he didn't feel sorry for the victims and their families. To imply that is dishonest.
 
Instead of mourning him, how about mourning the victims he murdered in cold blood. Not mention the hundreds of thousands affected by the little gang he helped to create.
 
Who is being dishonest here?

Might want to read my post again, I never said I was happy about his execution.

My clear point is that I do not see anything about him to be revered or respected. :rolleyes:

I'll reserve reverence and respect for those who leave this world better off than they found it to one degree or another rather than worse off becuase they existed. What Williams represented and did was wrong and again no matter how you want to spin it respecting/defending him is also questionable. Williams had choices and for most of his life the choices made were wrong.

Personally I am glad he was able to do some things later that may influence others no to make those same choices , but that is about it as far as respecting him or the type of life he wanted to live.
 
I feel no sympathy towards Stanley Williams whatsoever. An utterly cold-blooded and remorseless killer up until the very end. I feel deep sorrow for the families of the victims who had to endure so much insanity for so long. The system truly failed them. Maybe now they can at the very least find closure to the loss of their loved ones.
 
Smooth Operator said:
....but it's obvious you all don't personally know or have a kinship with anyone who's doing/done time....
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Wanna bet?
.
.
.and if I hear cold-blooded murder without remorse referred to one more time as "a mistake" I am going to :barf: :barf: :barf:
 
Smooth Operator said:
Alot of people seem to be ecstatic at his execution..
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But reasonable minds see it as the last tragic, but necessary episode in his sickly demented and violent life.
I saw a man who was able to finally realize what he had done, who he had become, and who was genuinely guilt stricken by the violent saga...
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Then how come he plotted to murder his way out of prison, and never outright admitted and apologized for his brutal murders?
Many will see the execution of Stanley Williams as a fitting and well deserved punishment, but I will see his death as a lesson taught to the kids he was trying to reach. If his story deters a kid from joining a gang, or selling dope, or doing anything else that could land him in prison or a body bag, then that's one more kid that he will have saved. And when you think about it, that's truly all that mattered to him towards the end.
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So... he is a hero for dying to demonstrate that pointless cold-blooded murder doesn't pay? But since he fought so hard to avoid dying and sending this valuable message does that make him a "reluctant" hero?
 
Mudflap said:
I feel deep sorrow for the families of the victims... Maybe now they can at the very least find closure to the loss of their loved ones.
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I absolutely hate this "closure" thing.

My father died of a heart arrhythmia. Whom shall we execute so that I can have my "closure?"

My mother died of cancer. How do I "get closure" on that?

This idea that you need to see the death of the person who killed your loved one so that you can "get closure" is not a American idea at all. "Closure" is not what our justice system is about at all. In fact, as it has come to be used in this context, this word "closure" has become a politically-correct euphemism for REVENGE. And that's not a paradigm that has been traditional in America and not one I think we want to invite in.

In some countries, if you are found guilty of killing my relative and sentenced to execution, I can personally have the "honor" of pulling the trigger. In fact, in such countries, it is not unusual for such a criminal trial to be followed by a sort of civil hearing to determine which of the victim's relatives get the "honor." That's the ultimate in "closure" isn't it? Do you want that?

Shortly after Tookie's execution, there was a press conference in which members of the news media who had been selected to witness the exection gave their reports. One commented on how cramped the gallery had been with news reporters, victim's families, the State's official witnesses, and Tookie's invited guests -- quite a crowd.

Several years ago, there was an execution in some state -- I don't remember which. Again, one of just three reporters who had been selected to witness that execution commented on how cramped the witness room was. He went on to explain that when this facility had been built decades ago, the witness room was built to hold six people because state law required six witnesses selected from the jury pool -- just six witnesses and those randomly-selected from the jury pool. Today, they still had those six plus victim's families, the condemned's guests, and a state judge had ordered that the media be allowed though later limited his ruling to just three selected reporters when the Warden protested that the room simply couldn't accomodate any more. In the past, anyone wanting "closure" from that execution, wanting to know that it took place, wanting to savor the flavor of their revenge, would have to settle for six signatures of unknown citizens; that's all the "closure" you got. Today, we've come to think that somehow it's the victim's "right" to have this "closure" -- let's call it what it is: revenge.

It's a culture of revenge. You see this in some cultures and societies and countries. Someone disgraces someone else's sister, so the brother kills the man to restore the family honor, as revenge. But now the first family is dishonored and so someone from that family kills two from the second as revenge, to "get closure." Of course, the second family now has to extract its revenge against the first, to "get its closure." Of course, there's no "closure" in this at all.

In Western culture, we have a strong tradition of executions carried out by the state, not about revenge, not about the victim at all.

Who killed Tookie? Has the name been reported? You'd think that would be a very interesting detail. You'd think that any of the "talk" shows would love to have that person on. Who is it? We don't know and we never will. It was an unnamed state employee, an agent of the state who did his/her assigned task from behind a curtain. Why? Because this execution was not an act of vengence, it was not a personal thing at all. It was not about "closure" for the victim's families.

Hopefully, the victim's families had already found their closure apart from Tookie's death, the same way I had to find my closure for the deaths of my parents.
 
The closure issue is not about revenge, it's about finally not having to participate in the legal struggle any more. I really feel for families who aren't allowed to just deal with their grief and their loss of a loved one -- they are forced to deal with the police and the courts and the media and go on struggling for justice on and on for an inhumanly prolonged period. Now that's finally going to end for them soon -- that will be closure.
 
Cougar Allen said:
The closure issue is not about revenge, it's about finally not having to participate in the legal struggle any more.
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Once the investigations are done, the families and friends don't have to participate. The State will prosecute the criminal.

I really feel for families who aren't allowed to just deal with their grief ... and go on struggling for justice .
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What is this "struggle for justice" thing you talk about? How does it differ from revenge?
 
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