Robbed of $1500 by Crusader Forge Knives

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smcjoecohen@yahoo

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I'll try to keep this as short as possible. I ordered 3 knives from Crusader forge in October 2012. After a year wait they contacted me and said they were ready to make my knives. I sent the pictures and $1475 for 2 knives in December 2013. They told me the 1st knife would be $775 and done in 3 weeks. Fast forward to May 2014 I still had no knives. I was patient and polite whenI sent emails in February, Kathy the office manager told me I should see something by the end of the week. I was patient and polite when I emailed her in March and got the same response, I should see something in two weeks this time. I stopped being polite in April and demanded to know the status of the order. I wanted to see pics of what he had done or I wanted a refund...no response. I started calling them. Then last week Kathy calls me and tells me my 1st knife is done and was being dropped at the post office that very moment. OK great! Finally. A week later I het the knife and that's when this horrible experience turned into a real nightmare. I open the box and the knife they sent me looked nothing like what I ordered. This big picture is what they sent me. The small pic is what I ordered, the scales are wrong, the thumb hole is wrong, the blade color is wrong, all the measurement are wrong.
IMG_0003_zps86e2dd68.jpg
59df4f4c7bb1588a67781210d1b017d2selector200both_zps89afd909.jpg

This is a picture of the email I sent w/the specs
IMG_0001_zpsde86fff6.jpg


Holding onto my money for 5 months w/out starting work is bad, sending me a knife that doesn't look anything like what I ordered is really bad. The worst part of this story is still coming. When I got this thing I called them and told them I no longer wanted the 2nd knife, I wanted my remaining $700 refunded. Kathy told me sorry but this knife didn't cost $725 like she originally told me, this knife costs $1100. Maciej used .25" Ti and he put a ball bearing system in it so it was $375 more. I NEVER ASKED FOR THAT STUFF...I NEVER APPROVED THOSE UPGRADES!!! She said "These knives have retailed for $1295" IF I WANTED TO PAY RETAIL I WOULD HAVE DONE SO 2 YEARS AGO! The reason I waited for years was to get it direct from dealer not pay 2ndary market prices. So I didn't have $700 left I had $375, I asked for that to be refunded and so far nothing, that was 3 days ago. She said send the knife back but I'm afraid if I do I'll have to sue to get my money. Thank god for technology, I have every email Kathy has sent me. All the price breakdowns, and promises of delivery so if I have to I can prove breach of contract in court. IF YOU THINK THIS IS MESSED UP EMAIL CRUSADER FORGE AND TELL THEM THIS IS NOT OK (crusaderforge@yahoo.com). CALL THEM AND LEAVE A MESSAGE (435-5742193). IF I HEARD THIS STORY I WOULDN'T HESITATE, THIS IS THE SAME AS A SCAMMER RIPPING OFF MEMBERS. IF THEY'LL DO IT TO ME THE WILL DO IT TO ANYONE. crusaderforge@yahoo.com
 
Thank you for the warning, and I hope you are made whole. Sounds like a terrible experience, and Crusader Forge is definitely on my no-fly list.
 
I'd say that, whatever happened, if both parties agree to zero out (they take back the goods and you take back your money) then you should both be able to part ways without issue. But yes, if that happened to me I'd be unhappy also.

This is also a telling reminder, that we shouldn't need to keep hearing, that sellers should never take deposits. Period.
 
Sorry to hear this. I'm not sure if Crusader Forge is represented here on BF but maybe you can send them a link to this thread so they have an opportunity to respond or not
 
Two knives ringing in at $1475, with that much cash involved the buyer should be completely satisfied with the final product. And costly upgrades added without permission of the buyer - that is unacceptable in any business. Would love to see a building contractor or financial manager pull that stunt.

Would like to hear the other side of the story from Crusader Forge but OP seems like he has all his ducks in a row - his willingness to provide evidence of emails, pricing, etc. is telling by itself.

Good luck working this out.
 
I sent them an email telling them I would never order a knife from them after reading this thread. You got my support
 
Just checked the 2014 Blade Show Exhibitors List.

You could find the Crusader Forge folks at Booth 243 and do a face to face.

Just a suggestion...
 
Email sent to Crusader Forge. Thanks to the OP for the heads up on a shady company and it's disreputable business practices.
 
I am a dealer for Crusader Forge and can confirm that this is how the ordering process with Crusader Forge is.
First of all, I have to say that Kathy and Maciej are wonderful people. I met them for the first time at last year's USN Gathering and they are just extremely nice. I don't believe there is one mean bone in their bodies. Maciej is also a volunteer firefighter and that takes up a lot of his time.

My first order with Crusader Forge was for 3 folders and 3 fixed blades. It took 1 year to get the folders and more than 2 years to get the fixed blades.

The second order from them took about 8 months and the third order took about the same amount of time.

Prior to ordering, I knew that it was going to take a while and we were prepared to put aside some funds and wait. For an end user, that is usually not desirable.

Kathy's default response will always be "2 weeks." She tells that to everyone, including us. There is always a delay. There is always something else going on. That is just how Crusader Forge is if you want to deal directly with them.

I am not sure why Crusader Forge even entertains the idea that they should sell directly to the end consumer; it doesn't make sense for a shop that small to take on thousands of orders from thousands of individuals. It takes custom software just to sort my customers and make sure things run smoothly; and my business partner is a freakin' software engineer.

Based on the way I see things handled in the feedback about them, in my mind I see Kathy using spreadsheet software from MS DOS 6.11
This is unfortunate because I really like their folders and I am not the only one.

I hope that you guys don't treat Kathy and Maciej with any disrespect at the Blade Show despite how orders are being handled. After speaking with them, it does not feel like they are out to make enemies. It seems as though they are overwhelmed with the demand and being a small shop, it is difficult for them to catch up. When Kathy says "two weeks" I feel like she is a die-hard optimist and she truly thinks and wants the knives to be ready by then.

I'd recommend against purchasing a knife directly from them as it is truly a hassle and instead go through a dealer that doesn't jack up the prices.
 
Heres on company I will never patronize. Right here is a clear cut example why I'm trying to get into traditional knives. Too many tactical knife makers think there knives are worth way more then they truely are. It will be a rude awakening when people stop paying these thousand dollar prices especially when shitty service is involved.

I hope this gets resolved in your favor.
 
I sent an email saying they should respond to this thread before losing a lot of potential customers...good luck
 
They've always been "behind" or "backlogged" since they were known as Trident Knives. I'd think some business acumen would have been learned, by now.
 
Some of the responses on threads like these are real head scratchers for me. I have been self employed as a construction contractor for 30 years now, and can't imagine any one of my customers taking less than they paid for.

I would never get away with "well sir, your kitchen will be finished in two weeks", then not deliver. Tell the same lie again, then not deliver. Repeat. And when finally caught with no place to further lie, I can't imagine trying to explain to a client that I'm just an optimistic dreamer that wants things to work well in the land of lollipops and balloons, and don't really have any connection to reality when it comes to their personal project. BUT, I am an optimistic person. That should count for something...

I can't imagine someone ordering a certain kind of sink (costing less than one of these knives!) and then installing another hoping it would fly. A sink that isn't close to what I agreed to, what the client paid for in advance. Fat chance. My customers want what they pay for. No bait and switch allowed.

Worse, I am trying to imagine telling someone that paid for me to work on their house in advance for a fixed project (no variables) that the price of their project had gone up over 50%!!! Really??? How could I defend that by saying that >> I << changed the specs on the contract without permission and now want more money? Then tell them they have no say so in the matter!

Strangely... I see encouragement to not treat these guys disrespectfully, and from another eternal optimist the thought that these guys aren't out to make enemies.

Sad to say, when you misrepresent your product, misrepresent your company, lie to your clients, use bait and switch tactics on the product you actually deliver, then arbitrarily try to extort more money from a contracted price because you want to, you will indeed make a lot of enemies.

In fact, you can probably take that to the bank.

In my business world I would be burned alive for that kind of conduct which is profoundly negligent at best, and outright dishonest as a likelihood.

I know we should all just get along, and all that other stuff. But it depends on whose wagon is in the ditch. I wonder if we were talking about someone's car transmission and this happened (non delivery of product as promised or when promised, jacked up pricing over the agreed amount) or any other kind of service/product agreement, it would easy for those feeling sympathy to let it go as they are encouraging the screwee to do. Like I said, it depends on whose wagon is in the ditch...

Joe, I think you should burn them alive. If they agreed to the pricing with you and you paid them up front and you don't have the knife you ordered (or anything close to it apparently) and now they are trying to jack another 50% on the other knife out of you (and make you feel lucky it isn't more) you should be going for the charcoal lighter fluid and your matches.

Robert
 
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midnight flyer said:
Some of the responses on threads like these are real head scratchers for me. I have been self employed as a construction contractor for 30 years now, and can't imagine any one of my customers taking less than they paid for.

I would never get away with "well sir, your kitchen will be finished in two weeks", then not deliver. Tell the same lie again, then not deliver. Repeat. And when finally caught with no place to further lie, I can't imagine trying to explain to a client that I'm just an optimistic dreamer that wants things to work well in the land of lollipops and balloons, and don't really have any connection to reality when it comes to their personal project. BUT, I am an optimistic person. That should count for something...

I can't imagine someone ordering a certain kind of sink (costing less than one of these knives!) and then installing another hoping it would fly. A sink that isn't close to what I agreed to, what the client paid for in advance. Fat chance. My customers want what they pay for. No bait and switch allowed.

Worse, I am trying to imagine telling someone that paid for me to work on their house in advance for a fixed project (no variables) that the price of their project had gone up over 50%!!! Really??? How could I defend that by saying that >> I << changed the specs on the contract without permission and now want more money? Then tell them they have no say so in the matter!

Strangely... I see encouragement to not treat these guys disrespectfully, and from another eternal optimist the thought that these guys aren't out to make enemies.

Sad to say, when you misrepresent your product, misrepresent your company, lie to your clients, use bait and switch tactics on the product you actually deliver, then arbitrarily try to extort more money from a contracted price because you want to, you will indeed make a lot of enemies.

In fact, you can probably take that to the bank.

In my business world I would be burned alive for that kind of conduct which is profoundly negligent at best, and outright dishonest as a likelihood.

I know we should all just get along, and all that other stuff. But it depends on whose wagon is in the ditch. I wonder if we were talking about someone's car transmission and this happened (non delivery of product as promised or when promised, jacked up pricing over the agreed amount) or any other kind of service/product agreement, it would easy for those feeling sympathy to let it go as they are encouraging the screwee to do. Like I said, it depends on whose wagon is in the ditch...

Joe, I think you should burn them alive. If they agreed to the pricing with you and you paid them up front and you don't have the knife you ordered (or anything close to it apparently) and now they are trying to jack another 50% on the other knife out of you (and make you feel lucky it isn't more) you should be going for the charcoal lighter fluid and your matches.

Robert
Click to expand...

I 100% agree with you.
 
midnight flyer said:
Some of the responses on threads like these are real head scratchers for me. I have been self employed as a construction contractor for 30 years now, and can't imagine any one of my customers taking less than they paid for.

I would never get away with "well sir, your kitchen will be finished in two weeks", then not deliver. Tell the same lie again, then not deliver. Repeat. And when finally caught with no place to further lie, I can't imagine trying to explain to a client that I'm just an optimistic dreamer that wants things to work well in the land of lollipops and balloons, and don't really have any connection to reality when it comes to their personal project. BUT, I am an optimistic person. That should count for something...

I can't imagine someone ordering a certain kind of sink (costing less than one of these knives!) and then installing another hoping it would fly. A sink that isn't close to what I agreed to, what the client paid for in advance. Fat chance. My customers want what they pay for. No bait and switch allowed.

Worse, I am trying to imagine telling someone that paid for me to work on their house in advance for a fixed project (no variables) that the price of their project had gone up over 50%!!! Really??? How could I defend that by saying that >> I << changed the specs on the contract without permission and now want more money? Then tell them they have no say so in the matter!

Strangely... I see encouragement to not treat these guys disrespectfully, and from another eternal optimist the thought that these guys aren't out to make enemies.

Sad to say, when you misrepresent your product, misrepresent your company, lie to your clients, use bait and switch tactics on the product you actually deliver, then arbitrarily try to extort more money from a contracted price because you want to, you will indeed make a lot of enemies.

In fact, you can probably take that to the bank.

In my business world I would be burned alive for that kind of conduct which is profoundly negligent at best, and outright dishonest as a likelihood.

I know we should all just get along, and all that other stuff. But it depends on whose wagon is in the ditch. I wonder if we were talking about someone's car transmission and this happened (non delivery of product as promised or when promised, jacked up pricing over the agreed amount) or any other kind of service/product agreement, it would easy for those feeling sympathy to let it go as they are encouraging the screwee to do. Like I said, it depends on whose wagon is in the ditch...

Joe, I think you should burn them alive. If they agreed to the pricing with you and you paid them up front and you don't have the knife you ordered (or anything close to it apparently) and now they are trying to jack another 50% on the other knife out of you (and make you feel lucky it isn't more) you should be going for the charcoal lighter fluid and your matches.

Robert
Click to expand...

Amazingly put, and notice how the only individual here who can "vouch" for these individuals is an individual himself who does business with/for them... So motive is quite clear as to why we should "give them a chance"...

Along with that, the knife looks nothing like the one in the picture... that was crazy man! If they did that to me, I wouldn't be happy myself, and the price increase without clearing it with you...! I mean come on ... that's reason enough to boggle anyones mind!!!! I mean really... to do something the client DID NOT ask for, and then to RAISE the price (because they WANTED TO)? .... hmmm, if this is truly how they run their business then I am questioning how they are even still around... It is in my experience "good business" might not make you rich fast, but will LAST .... however dishonest business will perish as fast as they came about!.... you go to a dealer thinking that you are safe, not having to deal with a stranger on the forums... HAH where did that go?--out the window! .... nowadays I much rather put my faith into others here on the forums, of course after reviewing their feedback :)...

Anyway man, I really do feel for you, and I can personally assure you that I will NEVER even for a second think about doing business with this company.... and you can be sure that I'll be telling my friends about this as well.... Without bringing awareness to things like this, it'll only continue, that's what makes social media such a great tool for weeding out bad-companies, among other things!!!!

Again, I do feel for you, however little that may matter to you... hang in there, and hell for $1500 It might just be worth taking them to court...If what you've said is the truth (100% of it)... and have all the facts/evidence to provide in court you'd no doubt be granted back your money.... and you could probably sue and get more than what you paid... considering the "heartache" that Im sure this "ordeal" put you through for months at a time ;)
 
gte217e said:
I am a dealer for Crusader Forge and can confirm that this is how the ordering process with Crusader Forge is.
First of all, I have to say that Kathy and Maciej are wonderful people. I met them for the first time at last year's USN Gathering and they are just extremely nice. I don't believe there is one mean bone in their bodies. Maciej is also a volunteer firefighter and that takes up a lot of his time.

My first order with Crusader Forge was for 3 folders and 3 fixed blades. It took 1 year to get the folders and more than 2 years to get the fixed blades.

The second order from them took about 8 months and the third order took about the same amount of time.

Prior to ordering, I knew that it was going to take a while and we were prepared to put aside some funds and wait. For an end user, that is usually not desirable.

Kathy's default response will always be "2 weeks." She tells that to everyone, including us. There is always a delay. There is always something else going on. That is just how Crusader Forge is if you want to deal directly with them.

I am not sure why Crusader Forge even entertains the idea that they should sell directly to the end consumer; it doesn't make sense for a shop that small to take on thousands of orders from thousands of individuals. It takes custom software just to sort my customers and make sure things run smoothly; and my business partner is a freakin' software engineer.

Based on the way I see things handled in the feedback about them, in my mind I see Kathy using spreadsheet software from MS DOS 6.11
This is unfortunate because I really like their folders and I am not the only one.

I hope that you guys don't treat Kathy and Maciej with any disrespect at the Blade Show despite how orders are being handled. After speaking with them, it does not feel like they are out to make enemies. It seems as though they are overwhelmed with the demand and being a small shop, it is difficult for them to catch up. When Kathy says "two weeks" I feel like she is a die-hard optimist and she truly thinks and wants the knives to be ready by then.

I'd recommend against purchasing a knife directly from them as it is truly a hassle and instead go through a dealer that doesn't jack up the prices.
Click to expand...

On your input alone, they should be arrested at the Blade show for grand larceny and mail fraud. You are describing theft, plain and simple.

n2s
 
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