afishhunter
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Hmmm ... SMKW IS the "vendor" and the manufacturer.
Perhaps if enough people request the "return" of this model SMKW will bring in more?
Rough Rider & Related Slipjoints
- Thread starter dalee100
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Perhaps if enough people request the "return" of this model SMKW will bring in more?
hornetguy
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I will preface this by saying that I don't like the fact that China steals/copies ideas and designs and makes counterfeits... I have resisted buying a RR knife partially for that reason, as I don't mind paying double or triple their prices to support US manufacturers.
However....
I was thinking I'd like to try a sowbelly style knife, but didn't want to shell out $60-80 for one, just to discover it's not my thing. So, I ordered a much-less-than-$20 RR in yellow delrin, with carbon blades. Immediately following that order, I found a Case sowbelly on the bay for a good price, so I bought it, also.
Both arrived the same day, and I was surprised to see the fit and finish of the RR. It was very nicely done, with nail file nicks on all three blades, along with worked, pinched bolsters, nicely rounded. The spine was very nicely ground flat, and I could find only the very slightest hint of a hairline gap by the center spacer. The blades open with probably a 6-7 pull, and have 90 degree stops. The main blade is almost gator-snap like. What really surprised me was that the springs were basically flush in all three positions, on all three blades.
None of the blades had much of an edge on them, but that was quickly remedied on my diamond stone. I don't know how well the blades will hold an edge, but I intend to find out.
I do not plan to buy a bunch of the RR's, for the reason I mentioned at the start of this thread, but if I am ever in a situation of not being able to find the knife I want from a US manufacturer, or if I want to do a test of a particular style, I wouldn't hesitate. If this one is "normal" for them, it's very impressive.
And, the Case sowbelly is very nicely done, as well... but I have come to expect that from Case. I did not really expect this level of "niceness" from RR.
However....
I was thinking I'd like to try a sowbelly style knife, but didn't want to shell out $60-80 for one, just to discover it's not my thing. So, I ordered a much-less-than-$20 RR in yellow delrin, with carbon blades. Immediately following that order, I found a Case sowbelly on the bay for a good price, so I bought it, also.
Both arrived the same day, and I was surprised to see the fit and finish of the RR. It was very nicely done, with nail file nicks on all three blades, along with worked, pinched bolsters, nicely rounded. The spine was very nicely ground flat, and I could find only the very slightest hint of a hairline gap by the center spacer. The blades open with probably a 6-7 pull, and have 90 degree stops. The main blade is almost gator-snap like. What really surprised me was that the springs were basically flush in all three positions, on all three blades.
None of the blades had much of an edge on them, but that was quickly remedied on my diamond stone. I don't know how well the blades will hold an edge, but I intend to find out.
I do not plan to buy a bunch of the RR's, for the reason I mentioned at the start of this thread, but if I am ever in a situation of not being able to find the knife I want from a US manufacturer, or if I want to do a test of a particular style, I wouldn't hesitate. If this one is "normal" for them, it's very impressive.
And, the Case sowbelly is very nicely done, as well... but I have come to expect that from Case. I did not really expect this level of "niceness" from RR.
afishhunter
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Case did not "invent" the sowbelly pattern or any other traditional knife pattern they currently manufacture.
(Neither did Rough Rider.)
Would you say that every traditional knife Case produces are "counterfits" or "copies"?
Most knife companies that make or made traditional knives from say 1890 to the present have all made the Barlow, Stockman, Cattle Knife, Pen, Trapper, Moose, a "Toothpick" and other popular patterns.
None of them were the first to make any particular pattern.
Traditional knives are built to a pattern, they are not a proprietary design like "modern" knives.
It is only a "counterfit" if the company making it uses a tang stamp they don't own or are licensed to use.
Heck, even the popular Case Sod Buster is a "copy" of a German knife pattern in production from before Case was in business.
(If Case put a Russell, Buck, or even a Rough Rider tang stamp, or any other tang stamp that they are not licensed to use on a knife they produced that would be a counterfit.)
hornetguy
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Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't like the fact that China steals/copies/counterfeits many of our products. THAT is why I try not to buy Chinese knives. I did not mean that RR counterfeited a Case sowbelly. Case does not make a yellow delrin 3 blade sowbelly, to my knowledge.
I do know what "counterfeit" means.
Please accept my apologies for offending you.
I do know what "counterfeit" means.
Please accept my apologies for offending you.
JohnDF
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hornetguy
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Now my knowledge has changed....
all I saw on the internet was single blade yellows...
I still would not call the RR a counterfeit... they are simply making slipjoints that look like everyone else's slipjoints.
China DOES make counterfeit knives, though. I purchased a "Spyderco" PM2 that was about the best counterfeit I've ever seen. Labeled correctly, with very slight differences in the lettering, but you had to have a genuine Spydie next to it to be able to tell. It came in a box that looked genuine, and it sold on the bay for about half what the genuine article cost.
We won't even get into the counterfeiting of Apple products, etc. THAT type of thing is what I was talking about when I said I don't like buying Chinese knives, if I can find a US made version instead. I would rather spend my money supporting our companies... if possible.
I'm obviously not rabid about it, just sort of selective. Hope that clarifies my thinking somewhat. Like I said in another thread, it doesn't bother me at all if someone wants to buy nothing but RR's.. my buying practices are simply MY buying practices. As I stated in the OP, if I find another RR that I want to try, I'll have no problem buying and trying.
all I saw on the internet was single blade yellows... I still would not call the RR a counterfeit... they are simply making slipjoints that look like everyone else's slipjoints.
China DOES make counterfeit knives, though. I purchased a "Spyderco" PM2 that was about the best counterfeit I've ever seen. Labeled correctly, with very slight differences in the lettering, but you had to have a genuine Spydie next to it to be able to tell. It came in a box that looked genuine, and it sold on the bay for about half what the genuine article cost.
We won't even get into the counterfeiting of Apple products, etc. THAT type of thing is what I was talking about when I said I don't like buying Chinese knives, if I can find a US made version instead. I would rather spend my money supporting our companies... if possible.
I'm obviously not rabid about it, just sort of selective. Hope that clarifies my thinking somewhat. Like I said in another thread, it doesn't bother me at all if someone wants to buy nothing but RR's.. my buying practices are simply MY buying practices. As I stated in the OP, if I find another RR that I want to try, I'll have no problem buying and trying.
I understand the conflicting views here...
60 bucks for a beautiful Case, 16 for a China model, but a user?
I have both although I admit I am not a collector and this is quite the "knife debate" ongoing.
I just carry my Swiss Army lol
...there is a difference between copy and deliberate counterfeit right?
60 bucks for a beautiful Case, 16 for a China model, but a user?
I have both although I admit I am not a collector and this is quite the "knife debate" ongoing.
I just carry my Swiss Army lol
...there is a difference between copy and deliberate counterfeit right?
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hornetguy
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I understand the conflicting views here...
60 bucks for a beautiful Case, 16 for a China model, but a user?
I have both although I admit I am not a collector and this is quite the "knife debate" ongoing.
I just carry my Swiss Army lol
...there is a difference between copy and deliberate counterfeit right?
absolutely.
Another very good reason to buy a RR knife (for me) is to have a cheaper knife to practice modifications on.
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Wait a minute. I thought SMKW was the vendor
Railsplitter
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Maybe they were speaking in "third person". Kind of like me saying "Rick likes knives" or something like that.
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afishhunter
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SMKW is both the primary "vendor" and the "manufacturer" of Rough Rider.
So in this case "discontinued by the vendor" is the same as "discontinued by the manufacturer."
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Personally, a contract knife is not "made" by the contractor, it's made by the Chinese company, not SMKW. Case is made by Case, GEC makes SFO, but it's a GEC product. How much input the contractor has in a knife is never really known and is sometimes lied about
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Personally, a contract knife is not "made" by the contractor, it's made by the Chinese company, not SMKW. Case is made by Case, GEC makes SFO, but it's a GEC product. How much input the contractor has in a knife is never really known and is sometimes lied about
So the Chinese design and build the knives and SMKW merely sells what they deliver? I'm kinda struggling with that one.
So the Chinese design and build the knives and SMKW merely sells what they deliver? I'm kinda struggling with that one.
I don't know and their not telling
However, if Queen, Cammilus, Schrade or GEC DNA can be spotted in their contract knives, I'd guess their's more Chinese knife savvy in Rough Rider than SMKW. AGRussell and AlMar traditionals made by Moki are certainly visibly Moki knives. Some collect the company, regardless of the mark.
I will preface this by saying that I don't like the fact that China steals/copies ideas and designs and makes counterfeits... I have resisted buying a RR knife partially for that reason, as I don't mind paying double or triple their prices to support US manufacturers.
However....
I was thinking I'd like to try a sowbelly style knife, but didn't want to shell out $60-80 for one, just to discover it's not my thing. So, I ordered a much-less-than-$20 RR in yellow delrin, with carbon blades. Immediately following that order, I found a Case sowbelly on the bay for a good price, so I bought it, also.
Both arrived the same day, and I was surprised to see the fit and finish of the RR. It was very nicely done, with nail file nicks on all three blades, along with worked, pinched bolsters, nicely rounded. The spine was very nicely ground flat, and I could find only the very slightest hint of a hairline gap by the center spacer. The blades open with probably a 6-7 pull, and have 90 degree stops. The main blade is almost gator-snap like. What really surprised me was that the springs were basically flush in all three positions, on all three blades.
None of the blades had much of an edge on them, but that was quickly remedied on my diamond stone. I don't know how well the blades will hold an edge, but I intend to find out.
I do not plan to buy a bunch of the RR's, for the reason I mentioned at the start of this thread, but if I am ever in a situation of not being able to find the knife I want from a US manufacturer, or if I want to do a test of a particular style, I wouldn't hesitate. If this one is "normal" for them, it's very impressive.
And, the Case sowbelly is very nicely done, as well... but I have come to expect that from Case. I did not really expect this level of "niceness" from RR.
I have that same knife Drew.
Maybe QC issues, but mine was like a razor! They do hold the edge very well and easy to sharpen.
They're not as pretty and as well finished as Case - but certainly not bad.
I'd take a bet that Case would withstand long term use better though.
hornetguy
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I've been pleased with this one, so far. For someone on a really tight budget, I can see these as a very nice option.
I suspect you are right about a Case knife lasting longer, but it might take quite a while to be able to prove it...
I imagine there are quite a few folks on this forum that have had, and used RR knives for quite some time, and could chime in with their experiences... I think Misplaced Hillbilly has a few of them, and he uses his knives....
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hornetguy
&
G
garryt
I have several, and by and large been well pleased with them. Enough so that I gave several as gifts last Christmas,I wouldn't have done so if I felt they were inferior knives. I find them to be fairly tough knives,as far as you'd want to push a slipjoint that is. Right or wrong I sometimes find myself using them harder than some of my other brands,simply because they are cheaper. I found they just keep working, with no drama. Only major issues I've had is the large sodbuster type with the liner lock,the lock wouldn't engage fully. But being made of brass I simply adjusted it(bent) to engage. Of course being a brass lock I wouldn't over exert it,same for any brand with brass locks. Also I have a small serpentine stockman with copper bolsters, part of the bushcraft series. I love the looks of,but it has weak springs. I still carry it from time to time though. I was able to look at 5 examples atva brick and mortar, and all 5 felt exactly the same. Of course some have had minor gaps or slightly proud covers,but that seems to be farther and farther in between of late. I'll not go into the politics, but I do buy American knives,in fact I have more of them. But I'm certainly not adverse to buying Rough Ryder either.
I have several, and by and large been well pleased with them. Enough so that I gave several as gifts last Christmas,I wouldn't have done so if I felt they were inferior knives. I find them to be fairly tough knives,as far as you'd want to push a slipjoint that is. Right or wrong I sometimes find myself using them harder than some of my other brands,simply because they are cheaper. I found they just keep working, with no drama. Only major issues I've had is the large sodbuster type with the liner lock,the lock wouldn't engage fully. But being made of brass I simply adjusted it(bent) to engage. Of course being a brass lock I wouldn't over exert it,same for any brand with brass locks. Also I have a small serpentine stockman with copper bolsters, part of the bushcraft series. I love the looks of,but it has weak springs. I still carry it from time to time though. I was able to look at 5 examples atva brick and mortar, and all 5 felt exactly the same. Of course some have had minor gaps or slightly proud covers,but that seems to be farther and farther in between of late. I'll not go into the politics, but I do buy American knives,in fact I have more of them. But I'm certainly not adverse to buying Rough Ryder either.
Thanks for the info.
It's interesting to know they've held up for you.
Most of mine have been good as well. A couple did develop lateral blade play, but tbh I was leaning on them harder than maybe you should for a slippy. Used in their limits they're fine. I do feel you can lean on Case harder, but then again they're a different price bracket and I'd expect the higher quality / durability accordingly.
I'd not feel guilty about buying the chinese RR's at all. At the end of the day you're still supporting a US company SMKW?