Rough Rider & Related Slipjoints

Just got the Marbles sowbelly stockman, black linen micarta & D2.
Everything is perfect, main blade pull is a 6, the others are 5. No blade rub, F&F excellent in every way. Very sharp.

Micarta/bolster joints tight & smooth with no gaps.
The main blade spring sits a little above flush at half stop, but that's it.

Very impressed. A step above most of my RR knives and several steps closer to matching USA-made knives, IMO.
 
After much anticipation (by me, myself, and I) the BTI Old Timer 23OT Scout/Camp knife ordered on 07/04 has arrived. :D

First, some head to head comparisons to the Marbles MR278 "Demo" knife, for those who are curious about that.:

Both the 23OT and MR278 are the same 3 5/8 inches closed. I don't think the bail and blades on the 23OT pivot on the same pin, like on the MR278. On the 23OT the bail pin/rivet can move horizontally, and the bail isn't pressed against the bolsters. I believe if the punch and screwdriver-cap lifter pivoted on this pin, at a minimum, there would be blade wiggle-wobble, which there isn't.
The blade stock on the punch/awl, can opener, and screwdriver/caplifter blades on both are 1/8 inch. The spear point main blade on the MR278 is also 1/8 inch. On the 23OT it is 3/32. Also, the spear point main blade on the 23OT is 2 3/8 inches long, vs. 2 7/8 inches on the MR278.
Aside from the punch/awl, which are the same length on both, all the tools on the 23OT are shorter. The 23OT does not have the matchstrike pulls of the MR278, nor does the 23OT have mirror polished fingerprint and smudge magnet blades like the MR278.
Obviously, the handles are different. The 23OT has bolsters and saw cut Delrin covers, while the Marbles Demo Knife has a stainless steel handle, with no bolsters or covers
I'll say "I don't think the two knives are made at the same factory, although I could be mistaken."

23OT First impressions: (Applicable only to my example. Other examples of this knife may differ.)
Can opener has a pull of roughly "8", and feels a little "gritty", even after washing with a toothbrush, and lubing. There really isn't an opening snap, although there is a strong closing snap. I expect this blade will smooth out over time.
The punch/awl, screwdriver/caplifter, and main blade all have a good snap on opening and closing, and a pull of about "6". The pulls may smooth out to a proper "5" over time. (I hope they do, at any rate.)
No blade wiggle-wobble. No noticeable gaps, No half stops, backsprings are flush open and closed, on all four blades. No blade rub.

I'm happy with it. I was not expecting the spear point to be 1/4 inch shorter than on the MR278 that I've been carrying for so long, but "oh well."
From the pictures, I knew the tools (with the exception of the punch/awl) were the short version, so no surprises there.
At any rate, the 23OT is on my (30 inch) lanyard and in my pocket now, for the foreseeable yet to come. :)
 
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Question about the stockmans, and also a wider question about Rough Rider/Ryder stockmans in general:
Are the spey and sheepsfoot blades offset correctly? I recently received a Rough Rider sowbelly stockman where spey blade was offset to the left but the sheepsfoot was offset to the right. This means when they are on opposite ends of the knife, they will hit each other... doh! The "solution" was to excessively crink the sheepsfoot. I am wondering if this is a broader design issue for Rough Rider or if it's specific to the model I bought?

Any thoughts would be welcome!
 
Stockman knives are one of my favorite patterns. Over the years I have probably had a dozen each of large ( +/- 4" ), medium ( +/- 3 1/2") and small. About half of them from Case, Buck, Boker, Klass, etc. seem to need a small adjustment to keep a couple of the blades from rubbing, or to keep them off the liners.

I saw a video years ago on how they crink blades on these knives, and they were done by hand. Stamped flat, then crinked when in the bolsters. The guy that was drinking the blades was fearless, and did the work by putting the blades in a vise up to the kick and just bent them. Literally took him seconds.

I do the same thing he did but with great care. I cushion both sides of the blade and very, very gently give it a nudge in the direction I want. Takes several times, but I always get the blades where I want. The only trouble I had was one time when I had to bend the spey on a Boker about halfway down the blade, not the whole blade. Still got it done.

If the fit and finish on the rest of the knife is good, try it. Just go easy and slow.

Robert
 
midnight flyer said:
Stockman knives are one of my favorite patterns. Over the years I have probably had a dozen each of large ( +/- 4" ), medium ( +/- 3 1/2") and small. About half of them from Case, Buck, Boker, Klass, etc. seem to need a small adjustment to keep a couple of the blades from rubbing, or to keep them off the liners.

I saw a video years ago on how they crink blades on these knives, and they were done by hand. Stamped flat, then crinked when in the bolsters. The guy that was drinking the blades was fearless, and did the work by putting the blades in a vise up to the kick and just bent them. Literally took him seconds.

I do the same thing he did but with great care. I cushion both sides of the blade and very, very gently give it a nudge in the direction I want. Takes several times, but I always get the blades where I want. The only trouble I had was one time when I had to bend the spey on a Boker about halfway down the blade, not the whole blade. Still got it done.

If the fit and finish on the rest of the knife is good, try it. Just go easy and slow.

Robert
Click to expand...
Thanks for that advise, good tip for future reference, have a good weekend.
 
stemgj71 said:
Question about the stockmans, and also a wider question about Rough Rider/Ryder stockmans in general:
Are the spey and sheepsfoot blades offset correctly? I recently received a Rough Rider sowbelly stockman where spey blade was offset to the left but the sheepsfoot was offset to the right. This means when they are on opposite ends of the knife, they will hit each other... doh! The "solution" was to excessively crink the sheepsfoot. I am wondering if this is a broader design issue for Rough Rider or if it's specific to the model I bought?

Any thoughts would be welcome!
Click to expand...

I have three ... no ... five ... Rough Rider stockmans over 4 inch closed, and about the same number of 4 inch closed.
I had one of their 5 or 6 blade sow belly's but lost it when it fell out of my pocket while riding my (adult) trike, a couple years ago.

Looking at my RR1740 "Classic Carbon Steel" (4.25 inch closed), RR603 large (4.25 inch closed) "Old Yeller", stockman, RR1057 "A Stroke of Luck" large (4.25 inch closed) stockman, the Spey and Sheepsfoot are on opposite ends, and share a spring. The spey is not kinked. The sheepsfoot is, however, it does not contact the main clip point or the Spey blade.
The Spey blade comes close, but does not hit the liner.

I also have a second "A Stroke of Luck", and a 4.25 inch closed large 4.25 inch closed "Stoneworx" stockman at a friend's house in Florida. The blade layout on it are the same, and it has no blade rub, either.

My 4 inch closed RR1419 "Stoneworx" stockman has the same blade layout as the larger ones, above.
Again, the Spey and Sheepsfoot share a spring, and are on opposite sides.
The sheepsfoot is kinked, but does not hit the clip point main. The Spey Blade is again not kinked.
I had to thin the inside tip of the Spey Blade a hair to clear the sheepsfoot. It does not hit the liner. Note that the blade well of this 4 inch closed Stoneworx is maybe 1/32 inch narrower than the larger stockmans, because they used a slightly thinner center liner.

After thinning the tip of the Spey Blade (I'd guess less than 1/1000 inch) the pull dropped from "Gotta open the Sheepsfoot before the Spey Blade will move" to the same "4" to "5" "Buck 301ish" pull of the other blades.
The rub on the sheepsfoot was forcing it over against the liner, as well.

Looking at my Marbles MR432 D2 Sow Belly (closest I have to a Rough Rider Sow Belly) I don't know if the Rough Rider and Marbles Sow Belly are made at the same factory.
The Spey and Sheepsfoot share a spring.
The Sheepsfoot is kinked, the Spey Blade isn't.

This one also needed a little work to make it suitable for carry. (I don't believe all are like my example. The guy doing the YouTube Review didn't have the problem.)
Again, I had to thin the inside tip of the Spey Blade, and slightly thin the pile side liner with my fine diamond sharpening stone. I also had to slightly round the leading edge/corner of the tang. (thank goodness for Dremel type rotary tool, diamond bits, and precision diamond files.)
Again, the Spey Blade pull dropped from "over 10" to the same "5" or so of the other blades, making it one I can (and do) carry.

On all of these, the Sheepsfoot is the center blade.

Without looking at yours, I can't say slightly thinning the inside tip of the Spey Blade, and possibly thinning the pile side liner and rounding the leading edge of the tang (you don't want a sharp 90° angle to start moving the backspring.) will cure your problem(s).

I think I might have spent all of 15 minutes each, on the Rough Rider Stoneworx, and Marbles D2 Sow Belly.
SMKW would have replaced them, of course. However, I am an impatient bas ... I mean ... S.O. ... I mean ... ugly old thing ... and didn't want to wait however long it would have taken postal to get the replacements to me. :D

Hope this helps/helped. :)
 
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An update on (BTI) Old Timer 23OT
The facility's can opener died today, after about an inch on the second can of corn.
I felt sorry for the staffette trying to open that can, so I offered to open it for her.
I pulled the 23OT out of my pocket ... opened the can opener blade, and after 5 seconds, told her "I'll be right back, I gotta get a better can opener."
I went to my room and got my Marbles MR278 "Demo" knife. It took maybe 6 seconds to get the can open using the "Demo" knife's can opener.

So, if you are going camping, back packing, or whatever and have some canned good with you, be aware the short can opener on the Old Timer 23OT don't work worth a daRn. You get maybe 1/35 inch per stroke, compared to around 1/4 - 3/8 inch per stroke with the Demo knife.
The 23OT was not enthusiastic about gripping the lip of the can, either.
My vintage 1960's Ulster "Official BSA" Scout/Camp knife's can opener also works much better than the recent manufacture 23OT's.
If you're going to be opening cans out in the sticks (or more remote boonies) or you desire a good manual not 'lectric can opener at home, get yourself (A) A vintage Camillus or other official manufacturer "Demo" knife, or (B) Save a "few" bucks and get a Marbles MR278 "Demo" knife.
(BTW the MR278 costs less than many manual can openers at the grocer's)

Truth to tell, the can opener on an original "Demo" knife and the Marbles MR278 are easily the best manual can opener I've ever found. Much better than any twist knob/handle, I've used anyway.

I gave the facility my MR278 with a busted screwdriver/caplifter and can opener backspring, so they'll have a good can opener. :) (The spring may be busted, but even if it weren't, as long as they use it right, the blade won't close on them. And, yes, I warned her the knife blade is sharp. It might be the sharpest knife they have now ... Perhaps I should offer to sharpen their "almost as sharp as a butter knife" kitchen knives?)
 
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Yeah well, I am included in the that group. You can be positive or critical of the knife all you want. Start calling the user "flawed" and you have an issue.

I am a Rough Rider Stockman/Stockman Sowbelly user. I am flawed. Therefore, there is at least one Rough Rider user that is flawed.:):eek: And I suspect there are others.;):rolleyes:

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I have lots of Rough Rider knives.

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For the most part they're great knives. It's my experience that the underlying complaint about Rough Rider knives is because of the country of orign not the knives themselves.

We ought to take this conversation to the "Rough Rider and Related Slipjoints" thread.
 
(BTI) 23OT Scout/Camp Knife Update:
I sent BTI a message after hours today, as soon as I noticed.
With luck, I will hear back from them on Friday July 23, 2020
IN NO WAY IS THIS POST MEANT TO "BASH" BTI

I had put the 23OT back in my pocket on Wednesday, July 20, 2020, after deciding (in spite of The Can Opener Incident) "I spent too much for this knife not to carry it!"

At roughly 22:15 hours (mountain time) 07/22/2020 I noticed one of the bail rivets was AWOL. Regardless of what Scout/Camp/Demo knife I have in my pocket, it is always connected to my 30 inch SAK lanyard.
I have been (so far) unsuccessful in finding the missing rivet.
No doubt I'll locate the missing rivet the next time I am bare foot. (I ain't looking forward to locating it by that means, either)
Since I have not taken the knife out of my pocket in any other room, I know it has to be in my room somewhere.

I'll keep you updated on BTI's response and their warranty department's performance.

Please enjoy your TGIF Eve, TGIF, and "weekend" :)
 
Anyone seen the new Rough Rider upswept bow trapper? Now out stock at the big TN store, but it looked interesting. I am not much of an upswept person, but it may be worth getting to try it out in their carbon steel.
 
cbach8tw said:
Anyone seen the new Rough Rider upswept bow trapper? Now out stock at the big TN store, but it looked interesting. I am not much of an upswept person, but it may be worth getting to try it out in their carbon steel.
Click to expand...
That sold out quick! I guess single blade trappers must be pretty popular. Personally, I don't get the attraction, but whatever :)
I wonder if there will be a second run?
 
afishhunter said:
(BTI) 23OT Scout/Camp Knife Update:
I sent BTI a message after hours today, as soon as I noticed.
With luck, I will hear back from them on Friday July 23, 2020
IN NO WAY IS THIS POST MEANT TO "BASH" BTI

I had put the 23OT back in my pocket on Wednesday, July 20, 2020, after deciding (in spite of The Can Opener Incident) "I spent too much for this knife not to carry it!"

At roughly 22:15 hours (mountain time) 07/22/2020 I noticed one of the bail rivets was AWOL. Regardless of what Scout/Camp/Demo knife I have in my pocket, it is always connected to my 30 inch SAK lanyard.
I have been (so far) unsuccessful in finding the missing rivet.
No doubt I'll locate the missing rivet the next time I am bare foot. (I ain't looking forward to locating it by that means, either)
Since I have not taken the knife out of my pocket in any other room, I know it has to be in my room somewhere.

I'll keep you updated on BTI's response and their warranty department's performance.

Please enjoy your TGIF Eve, TGIF, and "weekend" :)
Click to expand...
UPDATE:
I also sent the seller an email telling them of one bail rivet going AWOL.
As of 08/19/20 I have not heard back from either party.
Perhaps a bail rivet going AWOL is "not that big a deal" justifying replacement of the knife? (If so, they could be adult enough to tell me that.)

Anyway, I've given up (Ms.) Hope that either the Seller, or BTI will consider this matter worth responding to.

While "window shopping" at a couple BF Supporting dealer's yesterday, I found some bails that will probably adapt to the 23OT, for under $2 each plus shipping. :) (shipping will unquestionably cost more than the bails themselves, of course. :( )

Yes. I will buy from the seller again, (they did replace a Marbles MR278 with a busted backspring for me, without any issues) and I'll probably buy at least one more BTI made Old Timer. (the Old Timer canoe with "saw cut Delrin" covers is calling rather loudly to me) and maybe a 6OT so my pre-2000 6OT can continue to enjoy its retirement, should I ever have the urge to carry a barehead 110 size and type knife again.
(I already have a couple Taylor Schrade/BTI 7OT's so my pre-2000 7OT may continue to enjoy its retirement.)
Depending upon price, if BTI brings out a Hammer Brand, (I have one of the Taylor Schrade Hammer Brand 4 blade gunboat canoe whittlers) or one of the other long defunct Schrade brands like Ulster or NYKC, I'll probably get one of those too, provided I like the pattern.
(For example, if BTI brings out a Ulster Number 10 and 12, Barlow, I'd probably get one ... especially the number 12.)
 
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Norcaldude said:
Kinda neat looking, though that nail nick is ugly to my eye. What do you think of it?
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I just received the latest Rough Ryder knife. They're calling it an Upswept Bow Trapper and now that it's in hand I can say it reminds me of a slimmer saddlehorn. Here are the typical specs everyone wants to know. It's 3 7/8" closed. The blade is centered and sharp. All transitions are smooth. It has a half stop and the backspring is flush when open and closed and just slightly proud at half stop. The pull is softer than their swayback, I'd say about a 5. The closing talk is a satisfactory 'snap.' I'm not a big fan of the matchstrike nail nick but it does help make the blade pinchable. Oh, the red G-10 underliner is nice. I think the lanyard tube is narrower than normal if that matters to you. The steel is T10 carbon
 
@joerazda
The new RR single blade bow trapper? Looks like it'll make a fine user. :)
What's the other with red spacers? :)

EDIT:
Looks like you answered my questions while I was typing.
How you get triple exposure?
 
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