Rough rider stockman design flaw?

S

stemgj71

Joined
Feb 17, 2013
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I recently bought one of the new Classic Micarta line, the sowbelly stockman line. I liked the knife quite a lot, but unfortunately it had some kind of blade stick/binding on the sheepsfoot blade. Part of the problem is the the two secondary blades have not been designed correctly. The spey blade uses a left offset, while the sheepsfoot at the opposite end has a right offset. This means that they live up directly and will strike each other on closing. The "cure" they used is to crink the sheepsfoot excessively. I have bought a few Rough Rider models and generally found them to be good to great value for what you are paying. I was wondering if this is common to all their stockman models, and to the Marbles stockmans too, or if this is something specific to this particular model? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I do have one 3 blade stockman and two 4 blade stockmans from other manufacturers, and they all have the opposite blades offset on the same side so that they nestle correctly. So what gives, Rough Rider?
 
On all my several Rough Rider stockman (all serpentine frame, and 3 7/8 closed and larger) and my one Marbles stockman (D2 with black canvas micarta covers, sow belly) the Spey/Budding blade is not kinked. Only the sheepsfoot is.
On the Marbles sow belly, there was significant blade rub on the Spey/Budding blade, against the sheepsfoot blade and liner.
I fixed it by slightly narrowing the inside of the Spey/Budding blade tip to clear the sheepsfoot, using my sharpening stone, and thinning the pile side liner maybe 1/1000 inch, also with a small diamond plate sharpening stone.
The pull dropped from well over a "10"/"the sheepsfoot had to be open to move the spey/budding blade" down to a "5".
On my 3 7/8 inch closed Rough Rider "Stone Worx", I had to slightly thin the inside of the Spey Budding blade tip to eliminate the rub on the sheepsfoot blade.
I no longer have any blade rub on those two knives, or any of my other Rough Rider stockman.

As I told you in your last post concerning this issue (In the "Rough Rider and Related Slipjoints" thread, I believe it was) contact SMKW, and let them know your knife has excessive blade rub between the sheepsfoot and spey/budding blades, to the point those two blades won't close without a helpful nudge.
SMKW owns the Rough Rider brand.
Rough Rider has a lifetime guarantee.
SMKW will probably send you a new knife, and probably won't ask you to send them the one you have.
You can also try to bend the Spey/Budding blade so it isn't kinked, while waiting for the replacement knife. (put the blade on a table or other flat surface, hold it down with your off hand, and raise or lower the handle as required to bend the spey/budding blade away from the sheepsfoot when closing or closed. It ain't "rocket science" or "nuclear physics". :) )
 
JohnDF said:
They never have for me. They always wanted me to foot the bill for shipping it back.
Click to expand...
Weird.
SMKW also owns the Marbles brand, and has a lifetime guarantee on them, as well.

A few months ago I ordered a Marbles MR278 "Demo" knife off the big river site, with a Marbles SPORK.
It came in a hang pack, with all four blades half open. Yep. You guessed it.
Busted backspring. :(
On the can opener/ screwdriver-cap lifter side, before it was removed from the hang pack. :(

SMKW sent me a replacement MR278 (with SPORK, even though I told them I didn't need or want another SPORK. All I wanted was the MR278) They didn't want the one with the busted backspring, unless the replacement had the same problem.
(thankfully, it didn't :) )

I was going on my experience about them not wanting the defective/broken one sent to them.

Also, I think I remember reading in the Rough Rider and Related thread a couple years ago (no way am I going to go through however many hundreds of pages there are in that thread now to find that conversation ...) someone had to return their Rough Rider (for some reason that I don't remember) and SMKW didn't want the RR back, either.
 
I've also read some stories of them replacing knives.
That's cool, it just hasn't been my experience, three times over.
 
afishhunter said:
Also, I think I remember reading in the Rough Rider and Related thread a couple years ago (no way am I going to go through however many hundreds of pages there are in that thread now to find that conversation ...) someone had to return their Rough Rider (for some reason that I don't remember) and SMKW didn't want the RR back, either.
Click to expand...
That was me. I bought this RR which turned out to have a broken spring several years ago. They replaced it free and didn’t want the broken one back. I did email them this photo showing the broken spring. Good luck with yours.
0MMoRWx.jpg
 
stemgj71 said:
I recently bought one of the new Classic Micarta line, the sowbelly stockman line. I liked the knife quite a lot, but unfortunately it had some kind of blade stick/binding on the sheepsfoot blade. Part of the problem is the the two secondary blades have not been designed correctly. The spey blade uses a left offset, while the sheepsfoot at the opposite end has a right offset. This means that they live up directly and will strike each other on closing. The "cure" they used is to crink the sheepsfoot excessively. I have bought a few Rough Rider models and generally found them to be good to great value for what you are paying. I was wondering if this is common to all their stockman models, and to the Marbles stockmans too, or if this is something specific to this particular model? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I do have one 3 blade stockman and two 4 blade stockmans from other manufacturers, and they all have the opposite blades offset on the same side so that they nestle correctly. So what gives, Rough Rider?
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly clear about whether a blade offset is right or left, but here are some pics of the closed blades of some of my stockman knives from Rough Rider, Colt, and Marbles. Maybe the pics will give you some info related to your question.
(I've never noticed any kind of binding or excessive blade rub among the blades on any of these, or other stock knives I have from Rough Rider, Colt, and Marbles; these are the only ones for which I happen to have photos of the bladewell.)

Rough Rider carbon steel sowbelly stockman (clip blade at bottom of pic). Sheepsfoot looks slightly crinked to me. I'm not sure how you'd classify offsets; I'd say clip and spey are offset on their right (maximizing space between them), and sheep looks symmetrical to me.
carbsow.bladewell.jpg

Colt sowbelly stockman looks almost identical to me. Maybe less crink on sheepsfoot blade, but hard to tell because photo is from a different angle.
sowbelly.well.jpg

Marbles sowbelly stockman with drop point main (top of pic) and spey pivoting on one end and a smaller drop point or skinner on opposite end. I'd say all 3 blades are offset on their right, which I think is what you'd want, right? But there's still a fair amount of crink on the "middle" blade.
sowbelly.bladewell.jpg

A Marbles stockman with normal blade configuration (slender clip and sheep on one end, spey on other) that's serpentine but not a sowbelly. All blades appear to be offset on their right, with a slight crink on center sheepsfoot.
stock.bladewell.jpg

- GT
 


I have this knife as well. I have always thought the sheep’s foot offset was a mistake just as you have stated. It seems logical that the krink would not have had to be so severe if the other handed offset would have been chosen. But what do I know? I’m no pocket knife scientist.
 
Haven't we seen this elsewhere???

↑
Question about the stockmans, and also a wider question about Rough Rider/Ryder stockmans in general:
Are the spey and sheepsfoot blades offset correctly? I recently received a Rough Rider sowbelly stockman where spey blade was offset to the left but the sheepsfoot was offset to the right. This means when they are on opposite ends of the knife, they will hit each other... doh! The "solution" was to excessively crink the sheepsfoot. I am wondering if this is a broader design issue for Rough Rider or if it's specific to the model I bought?

Any thoughts would be welcome!
I have three ... no ... five ... Rough Rider stockmans over 4 inch closed, and about the same number of 4 inch closed.
I had one of their 5 or 6 blade sow belly's but lost it when it fell out of my pocket while riding my (adult) trike, a couple years ago.

Looking at my RR1740 "Classic Carbon Steel" (4.25 inch closed), RR603 large (4.25 inch closed) "Old Yeller", stockman, RR1057 "A Stroke of Luck" large (4.25 inch closed) stockman, the Spey and Sheepsfoot are on opposite ends, and share a spring. The spey is not kinked. The sheepsfoot is, however, it does not contact the main clip point or the Spey blade.
The Spey blade comes close, but does not hit the liner.

I also have a second "A Stroke of Luck", and a 4.25 inch closed large 4.25 inch closed "Stoneworx" stockman at a friend's house in Florida. The blade layout on it are the same, and it has no blade rub, either.

My 4 inch closed RR1419 "Stoneworx" stockman has the same blade layout as the larger ones, above.
Again, the Spey and Sheepsfoot share a spring, and are on opposite sides.
The sheepsfoot is kinked, but does not hit the clip point main. The Spey Blade is again not kinked.
I had to thin the inside tip of the Spey Blade a hair to clear the sheepsfoot. It does not hit the liner. Note that the blade well of this 4 inch closed Stoneworx is maybe 4/32 inch narrower than the larger stockmans, because they used a slightly thinner center liner.

After thinning the tip of the Spey Blade (I'd guess less than 1/1000 inch) the pull dropped from "Gotta open the Sheepsfoot before the Spey Blade will move" to the same "4" to "5" "Buck 301ish" pull of the other blades.
The rub on the sheepsfoot was forcing it over against the liner, as well.

Looking at my Marbles MR432 D2 Sow Belly (closest I have to a Rough Rider Sow Belly) I don't know if the Rough Rider ans Marbles Sow Belly are made at the same factory.
The Spey and Sheepsfoot share a spring.
The Sheepsfoot is kinked, the Spey Blade isn't.

This one also needed a little work to make it suitable for carry. (I don't believe all are like my example. The guy doing the YouTube Review didn't have the problem.)
Again, I had to thin the inside tip of the Spey Blade, and slightly thin the pile side liner with my fine diamond sharpening stone. I also had to slightly round the leading edge/corner of the tang. (thank goodness for Dremel type rotary tool, diamond bits, and precision diamond files.)
Again, the Spey Blade pull dropped from "over 10" to the same "5" or so of the other blades, making it one I can (and do) carry.

On all of these, the Sheepsfoot is the center blade.

Without looking at yours, I can't say slightly thinning the inside tip of the Spey Blade, and possibly thinning the pile side liner and rounding the leading edge of the tang (you don't want a sharp 90° angle to start moving the backspring.) will cure your problem(s).

I think I might have spent all of 15 minutes each, on the Rough Rider Stoneworx, and Marbles D2 Sow Belly.
SMKW would have replaced them, of course. However, I am an impatient bas ... I mean ... S.O. ... I mean ... ugly old thing ... and didn't want to wait however long it would have taken postal to get the replacements to me. :D

Hope this helps/helped. :)
 
JonMcD said:


I have this knife as well. I have always thought the sheep’s foot offset was a mistake just as you have stated. It seems logical that the krink would not have had to be so severe if the other handed offset would have been chosen. But what do I know? I’m no pocket knife scientist.
Click to expand...

Jon that sheepfoot offset grind is definitely on the wrong side, not really sure why they'd do that. If it were on the other side it would have required only a slight amount of crinking. The type of setup on that knife would be better suited in a whittler with a large blade running down the center from the opposite side. Not sure what's going on with that large clip either, looks like it's crinked from the center of the blade! If they had put long drawn swedges on those blades instead of cut swedges it would have given the blades a lot more wiggle room too. The way the blades are ground they're only 3/4 the thickness of their tangs and they STILL don't fit correctly. Bad engineering there for sure.

Eric
 
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ea42 said:
Jon that sheepfoot offset grind is definitely on the wrong side, not really sure why they'd do that. If it were on the other side it would have required only a slight amount of crinking. The type of setup on that knife would be better suited in a whittler with a large blade running down the center from the opposite side. Not sure what's going on with that large clip either, looks like it's crinked from the center of the blade! If they had put long drawn swedges on those blades instead of cut swedges it would have given the blades a lot more wiggle room too. The way the blades are ground they're only 3/4 the thickness of their tangs and they STILL don't fit correctly. Bad engineering there for sure.

Eric
Click to expand...

Thanks Eric! Good thing we all have appropriately low expectations for this brand.

Definitely good to get my assertions approved by a real pocket knife scientist though! All the best my friend.
 
JohnDF said:
Perhaps they are using an existing sheepsfoot blade from another pattern.
Click to expand...
I don't think that is it, because the new D2 knives have are the same and being a new steel to the line, they wouldn't be reusing blades from another pattern.
 
LastRodeo said:
I don't think that is it, because the new D2 knives have are the same and being a new steel to the line, they wouldn't be reusing blades from another pattern.
Click to expand...
Unless you believe that RR knives are the only line produced in that factory. ;)
 
JohnDF said:
Otherwise... the only possibility left is that they don't know what they're doing. :D
Click to expand...
I have a couple of RR small stockmans with that same quirk in the sheepsfoot offset. I had already come to the same conclusion you did.;)
 
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