Rubicon available for pre-order!

What we may be seeing here is that people are way more enthusiastic about the blade steel on a knife, rather than the handle / frame.

Look at the Southard, there's a Spyderco flipper that sells for $250ish all day long. I believe that's G10 and Ti?
I don't know anything about carbon fiber really, and I'm just guessing here, but I'll bet it's a lot tougher to sculpt(?) the CF into a more contoured shape, Vs just having some CF slabs screwed to a steel or Ti liner... but still.
I mean, something like that 0770CF-M390 was only like $225, right?

What I hope happens here is that they re-release this one with a different blade steel that excites more guys into buying it.
For Spyderco fans, this one has the potential to be "our 0777", or something like that, but it just seems like a missed opportunity on the blade. If the blade was CTS 204P or M390, I'll bet a lot of collectors would be fighting to get one even at $400
 
Rasco said:
What we may be seeing here is that people are way more enthusiastic about the blade steel on a knife, rather than the handle / frame.

If the blade was CTS 204P or M390, I'll bet a lot of collectors would be fighting to get one even at $400
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The fan effect of steels is well known, and often accounts for a much larger claimed difference in performance than could be justified objectively. If you're right (and I think you are), this means that increasing the cost by upgrading the steel would increase demand even though the actual practical bang for the buck is lower*. This is an interesting comment on the desires of the high end knife user and their perception of value. I guess when you're in this market segment, consumers want to feel that they're getting "the best" of everything, and of course scarcity/rarity is always a driver of demand.

However, it's even more interesting to note that collectors (who are concerned with performance only in the abstract) would be so swayed by steel choice. To a true collector, the steel choice is little more than letters and numbers on the blade.

I'm not judging people for their buying preferences, they have the right to their preferences obviously, I just think it's an interesting discussion.

*Using your example of $400, which would be 25% more expensive without a commensurate 25% increase in performance. Also, I know the bang for the buck on knives in this segment is already very low, as Spyderco has many offerings that are just as effective in the $60-100 range. However, many of the complaints are on the basis of "value."
 
tvenuto said:
The fan effect of steels is well known, and often accounts for a much larger claimed difference in performance than could be justified objectively. If you're right (and I think you are), this means that increasing the cost by upgrading the steel would increase demand even though the actual practical bang for the buck is lower*. This is an interesting comment on the desires of the high end knife user and their perception of value. I guess when you're in this market segment, consumers want to feel that they're getting "the best" of everything, and of course scarcity/rarity is always a driver of demand.

However, it's even more interesting to note that collectors (who are concerned with performance only in the abstract) would be so swayed by steel choice. To a true collector, the steel choice is little more than letters and numbers on the blade.

I'm not judging people for their buying preferences, they have the right to their preferences obviously, I just think it's an interesting discussion.

*Using your example of $400, which would be 25% more expensive without a commensurate 25% increase in performance. Also, I know the bang for the buck on knives in this segment is already very low, as Spyderco has many offerings that are just as effective in the $60-100 range. However, many of the complaints are on the basis of "value."
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LOL who said anything about it being worth $400 because of M390 steel, that it still a horrible value IMO. Maybe $250 max considering other options out there...
 
Numbers can be crunched all day long... I'm sure there will always be an argument on the "Value" of a knife :rolleyes:... Most knife owners and collectors I know, whichever knife they buy, the primary reason is always going to be its aesthetics / cool factor (nobody wants an ugly knife). How the knife itself looks is what first catches our eye, from there we try to find a reason to justify its purchase Lol.

When you were a kid, did you have an AMC Pacer poster on your wall or did you have something else?? Lamborghini was mine (a boy can dream :) True, one man's beauty is another man's monster but really... nobody want's an ugly knife.

(Mind you the coolness factor alone, along with it being offered from a reputable company is all we need most of the time)

In my head I have this check list that magically appears when I'm about to spend more than a few bucks on a blade.

In this order.

1: Does it look aesthetically appealing / cool (shapes, colors, grind, fit and finish?)
2: Who's knife is this (Is the company offering it reputable?)
3: Do they have a history of faulty workmanship claims? (I've seen companies destroyed by crappy reviews of their CS)
4: Are the materials on par with the price (not paying 3 bills for G-10 and 8cr3mov)

This is what you are paying for! Not just the knife itself... In a perfect world every company and every blade would fit this criteria. Unfortunately not all do... Fortunately Spyderco does!

I don't really buy too many production knives anymore but this one really caught my eye... Even better that it's offered by Spyderco (I'll probably be able to flip this thing like mad and not worry about the lock face...that alone is worth the price of admission) Most mid techs start off at the $500 point so at $250 - $300 for a high end production whose aesthetics and function are right up there with any ANY production knife and most mid techs...even a few customs seems like a legit bargain to me. A Peter Carey Rubicon will run you in excess of $1200 and that's in G-10! That's if...IF you can find one!

The other point I'd like to highlight here is "The Upper End" What I mean by that is, what is the upper end in $$$ that you've ever spent on a knife. This is just an assumption and yes I'm an ASS for ASS-uming :D. But seriously, what is your upper end regardless of production, mid tech or custom. I'm guessing that for folks that have spent $100 - $200 a jump to $300 would be a deal breaker. For the folks who've spent $300 - $600 a jump to $1000 would be a deal breaker and so on...

So to sum it all up, in my humble opinion..... The worth of a knife has very little to do with the actual monetary value and mostly to do with it being a reasonable purchase at the time. If the price doesn't make you flinch, it's probably a good value....to you :)
 
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I'm in the agreement with many of the memebers that use the other Spyderco Flippers as a comparison.

Southard: Ti Framelock, Ti liner, G10 Scale, Premium Steel, Collaboration design, Bearing Flipper, Cutsom clip = ~$230 Retail

Domino: Ti Framelock, Ti liner, G10 laminate scale, CTS XHP steel, Bearing Flipper = ~$190 Retail

Rubicon: Ti Linerlock, Ti liner, CF Scales, S30V steel, Bearing FLipper, Collaboration Design, Custom Ti clip, G10 accents on pivot. = ~$280-300 probably drop to around $260.

There are some differences, like the sculpted CF, and the G10 accents, which should add some cost of manufacturing, but I'm also seeing some COST SAVINGS going on by using a linerlock instead of famelock, and S30V steel instead of XHP, or 204P.

Apparently the CF is adding much more cost than I originally thought it might because I would think you could trade a framelock for linerlock, and Premium steel for s30v and add the CF scales and G10 accents and mostly break even. But I'm no knife maker, just thought I'd add some of my observations.
 
Design wise the Rubicon looks amazing! I would get it over any upcoming ZT offering. The 3d carbon fiber with G10 highlighting gives it a very custom look. The only thing I'm on the fence about is the steel choice. I wonder if spyderco might switch the steel to CTS-XHP like they did with the CF Chaparral.

People complaining about the price should be glad that Spyderco didn't do this as an LE like a lot of the ZTs. Then you'd be crying about not being able to get one because of secondary market prices.
 
As I've mentioned before, take a look at the pricing on the Chaparral Stepped Titanium with MSRP of $564.95. Even today, a quick search will yield street prices of $250 to $361.95 (35%-55% off MSRP)! That's quite a variance granted it has been out a while.

Rubicon has MSRP of $499.95 but I don't think we'll see it for 55% off MSRP ($225) but not unreasonable to see it right around $250 eventually. Demand will dictate the price fall.
 
I'm no Spyderco fan but I'm digging this model. I went ahead and put in for a pre-order for it because I would like to have it. I'm not going to worry about the price because it makes me happy. That's what collecting is all about.
 
I don't think it's that shiny. I think it's just because it's under those big ass lights. But man I'd love to have that knife but the price would hurt my pocket
 
I really like the design...but with all the awesome options they have out in newer steels for cheaper...I'm going to wait to pay around 240 for s30v. If they introduce it later in s110v or s90v or k390 or 3v or cts-204p then I would pay the 300 or 320. So if it stays in s30v and above the 240 price range I'll probably only have one.

I mean like others have said...the new ZT 562 and the emerson model are both offered in m390 steel with titanium frame lock and carbon fiber for 210 from retailers.
 
WHAAAT? Don't cha know? Orange is in, baby.
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RamZar said:
Also, prices will come down and I'm basing that on my Chaparral Stepped Titanium experience which has an MSRP of $564.95.... Take a close look at the amount of time it takes to do that intricate milling on the titanium handles.
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Argh!

I was compelled by my darker nature to look upon the bright lightness of the Chaparral Stepped Titanium knife! I was consumed by my illness and ordered it forthwith!

WHAT A SLICER!

Also, too, gorgeous.
 
NeilB said:
Argh!

I was compelled by my darker nature to look upon the bright lightness of the Chaparral Stepped Titanium knife! I was consumed by my illness and ordered it forthwith!

WHAT A SLICER!

Also, too, gorgeous.
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Resistance is futile!

If I recall correctly, you're an engineer and as such can appreciate the time it takes for that intricate milling plus engineers do have an eye on the aesthetics.
 
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RamZar said:
Resistance is futile!

If I recall correctly, you're an engineer and as such can appreciate the time it takes for that intricate milling plus engineers do have an eye on the aesthetics.
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Hi. My name is Neil and I am a knife knut. Oh, lord! :)

I am finishing up a three month project on CNC milling here at work. So, yeah. That thing is gorgeous!

Last time my girlfriend and I went out on the town, she showed me her little purse, and there wasn't room in it for her usual knife (a Delica, as it happens), so I riffled through my knives to find something that would fit. A bronze Ripple 2 plain edge. Since then, I've been keeping my eye out for slim, flat knives that she might be able to fit into her little clutch. She hates being without a serious knife. Yes, I adore her. :)
 
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