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Russian Axe - Toporsib?

aikonen said:
I'm not spending another second in the garage, it's -37 degrees celsius today!

DSC_0161_zpsg2qfgnhn.jpg
Click to expand...

Holy frostbite Batman!

I can't even imagine what -37C feels like when you walk out the door. I live in Houston, TX and it was 73 degrees Fahrenheit yesterday afternoon...
 
Toporsib axes are high-quality stuff.Forged by two brothers,a smith and a machinist,this small,developing company is super-responsible,these guys really concentrate on what they're about.They work very closely with their prospective customers,not infrequently letting some professional from the trades participate with them on the developement of a new model.
(This is not an advertisement,i just happen to've corresponded with them on some axe-related issues of my own,and am on friendly terms with one of the brothers,all strictly personal).
The construction of their axes is typical for the Industrial Age Russia,the beginning of factory production,late 1800's.The steel incert goes all the way clear to the eye(not the easiest way to forge an axe by hand,and that's a fact),but that's just how they roll...

The jacket steel is so-called Ct45,it's their equivalent of 1045 or thereabouts,and the steel incert is 65g(analysis below).That one i have trouble calling an exact analog for,it's AISI 6150-like, or so,med-high C spring steel,but somewhat "improved",and is used for not only leaf(and other)-springs,but also things like bearing races,et c.,which is not typical usually.
All in all,these two alloys are not the easiest in the world to handle,so my hat's off to those characters.
They both work their a$$es off and have little time left for the website update and marketing,(+ the language barrier),and say that soon their products will be available through some Finnish distributor...That's all i know

Chem.analysis of incert steel:http://www.s-metall.com.ua/stal_65g.html
Сталь 65Г - характеристика, химический состав, свойства, твердость


Химический элемент
%
Кремний (Si) 0.17-0.37
Медь (Cu), не более 0.20
Марганец (Mn) 0.90-1.20
Никель (Ni), не более 0.25
Фосфор (P), не более 0.035
Хром (Cr), не более 0.25
Сера (S), не более 0.035
 
That stuff (assuming 6150) has a very high forging temperature and great wear & impact resistance. Hardenability is slightly low, max'ing at ~54 RC. Still, even RC 53 with it's other qualities would make an excellent axe.
 
Square-peg,my apologies.I've looked it up,and at least composition-wise,it differs from 6150 radically.

The best that i could find after going through about a dozen equivalency charts is the Chinese 65mn(not surprising considering the Soviet involvement in the industrialization of China).
http://de.alfa-tech.com.pl/stale-konstrukcyjne-stopowe-stal-sprezynowa-65g

The impression i get of it is as somewhat improved spring steel,apparently fairly widespread in the knifemaking industry(Kershaw kept popping up in the search...).

An American equivalents listed were 1066,1566,G15660,but the Cr in those is way off,and certainly a plain C steel it ain't...

Sorry for the confusion.
 
TexAg said:
Holy frostbite Batman!

I can't even imagine what -37C feels like when you walk out the door. I live in Houston, TX and it was 73 degrees Fahrenheit yesterday afternoon...
Click to expand...

-37 is pretty much the crossover where degrees F and C coincide, and yeah that is some frosty. Interestingly it felt colder (to me) at 30 F London, England one New Year's Eve than it had at -30 F in Regina, Saskatchewan a couple of weeks earlier, and I was wearing the same clothes. Relative humidity is what does it and Brit dampness goes right through to your bones.
 
Regarding the original post,

I've seen these axe carried by another maker which is bulat-sib.ru, I think they are probably some how associated.
I've once bought a bulat-sib axe through http://www.getrussiangear.com/, they only list one model but if you ask them they can order other ones.
If they can order from bulatsib I guess they could order from toporsib.
As for future Finnish importer, I bet it would be Lamnia.com...
 
Ravaillac said:
Regarding the original post,

I've seen these axe carried by another maker which is bulat-sib.ru, I think they are probably some how associated.
I've once bought a bulat-sib axe through http://www.getrussiangear.com/, they only list one model but if you ask them they can order other ones.
If they can order from bulatsib I guess they could order from toporsib.
As for future Finnish importer, I bet it would be Lamnia.com...
Click to expand...
Hello!
As I know they (bulat-sib.ru) use unusual alloy. But Toporsib uses well known steel (65Г in Russian) widely used in industrial and which is also common used here by crafters for cutting tools. I suppose that such approach provides more stable quality of tool than result of using unusual nonindustrial alloy.
I have some swedish axes, but I have only one axe made by Toporsib. I'm afraid I'll get another one axe only closer to summer because Toporsib has a huge queue of orders now. So they are very popular here. They make not only "Russian axe" profiles, they are very frendly to customer requests and discussions at forums to get the best things and ideas from worldwide axe profiles and then make the prototype. To tell the true - they were, because they are very busy now (to perform such many orders) and as I understand they haven't time now to make new prototypes. But I think Toporsib has quite enough models of woodtools (not only axes!) to get rest from researh to new prototypes.
To the end I should write that axes is only my hobby, my job is so far from woodtools. But I can rely on opinions of many testers and users of Toporsib tools, which everyone can read on Russian forums (yes, you should can read in Russian or use translator)
Later I will write here my personal impressions about my axe made by Toporsib.
Kind regards to all!
 
Ok, my opinion about one axe made by Toporsib.
I ordered at Toporsib only head of the axe Bobr (Beaver in English) - http://toporsib.ru/shop/product-details/99-topor-bobr.html, i.e. without handle and sheaths. Its profile is result of quite long discussion at Russian blade forum and testing of prototype. I found out at forum this thread and immediatly ordered this axe.
I asked Toporsib to make flat Scandinavian grind, without any secondary bevel at cutting edge. Toporsib warned me that such grind is only suitable for the warm season and the carpentry work on clean wood.
The axe came from forge incredible sharp, more sharp than my thin kitchen knives. Ideally flat Scandi grind. The outer jacket of laminated packet is slightly visible on the flat grind as wave line near (0.5sm above) the cutting edge. I hafted it on handle and make several test. It weights (head+handle) 1.6kg. It has thick profile, it is not a limbing axe like Gransfors Bruks Scandinavian Forest Axe. I would say it is versatile axe. I cut off several birch and pine logs. Chopping was effective thanks to flat grind and thick profile. I shouldn't been used this axe with such grind for logs with bark in common forest mud. But I want to check it. The cutting edge had got only one tiny creep, about 1mm wide but without any chips. This small plastic deformation was easy removed by usual ceramic plate (rather pushing on deformation place than sharpening) . Cutting edge holds sharpening very well. After all tests it was still shaving sharp. I'm glad that the edge of blade gets plastic deformation instead of chipping. I'm going to make very narrow secondary bevel to prevent even plastic deformation of the cutting edge.
Bobr is suited for using by two hands but I used it by one hand for some light tasks like splitting a little piece of wood for kindling. It splits well, it limbs branches well too.
When comparing Bobr with Gransfors Bruks axes (which I own) I would say - Bobr is much better, definitly. The main advantages are laminated blade, wide poll and big eye of head (which allows to have handle with less quality wood than hickory, e.g. birch).
 
Rusi78 said:
Hi!
Toporsib axes are available at lamnia.com!
Click to expand...

I think I should point on different polls on different models of these axes. There are types of poll:
- reinforced flat rectangular tempered poll with edges (as on my Toporsib "Bobr") which can be used as improvised anvil for some very light tasks like cutting wire apart to make improvised nails;
- rounded poll (as on my smallest Toporsib hatchet) which is very handy while hold hatchet by two hands for some carpentry-like tasks (planing e.g.) - one hand holds axe head by palm (on poll side) and other hand holds axe handle
- hollow grind rectangular poll - intended to pegs drive in (I doubt it is a good idea to make such poll)

Obviously, the reinforced flat rectangular poll makes axe head balance (I mean poll against blade balance) better as it installed as additionally steel plate over rounded poll. But it is not comfortable in case of holding axe head poll by palm as I mentioned above.

So, to avoid misunderstanding, I would recommend to ask seller what type of poll is on the ordering model of Toporsib axe.
 
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