S-30V; Maker's Opinions??

S

SDouglas

Joined
Jan 6, 1999
Messages
605
Who's using it?

Do you Love it, Hate it or feel indifferent?

Has it been out long enough to form an opinion?
 
but it is definitely shaping up as the VERY BEST knife steel ever developed. BTW-Crucible made this material especially for the knife industry. :D :) :D
 
This is tough. Second time I have agreed with Mayo this year:)

I am very pleased with it. From my standpoint S30V saws, grinds, heat treats, and finishes as easy as D2. From customer input and the test knives I made with it, it's not that difficult to sharpen, good resistance to the elements, cuts well. Crucible did good with S30V.
 
What Hardness do you recommend for small utility knives?

I have read some posts that say it works well at 60-61 and others recommend 58-59.
 
In my opinion it is the best balanced stainless on the market bar none.

Im with Kit on the workability of it, I just am not having problems grinding or finishing it. So I dissagree with Tom and agree with Kit. Thants makes me even dosent it? :D
 
I hate it when I have to agree with Mayo, but this time I do on both counts. It's not too tough to grind, but finishing to a nice scratch-free brushed finish is not fun.

Paul Bos tempers mine to Rc60 for most knives and Rc58 for the big ones (>10").

Great steel on most counts, by any measure.
 
Im with Kit it works mostly like ATS-34 just the heat treat is different. Most people I have made knives for tell me they like the way it holds up and sharpons.
 
Glad you guys are in agreement on this CPM. Phil Wilson is making one up for me and I can hardly wait to get my hands on it.
 
You guys need to print this one out and frame it.

Anytime Jerry, Tom, Rob, and I agree on something, it's worth printing. :)
 
Any opinions or testing on specific areas of performance? Like:

1) Strength comparison with S90V in terms of how thin you can grind a good working edge at a given hardness.

2) I see varying opinions on best Rc hardness for different applications. Is the tendency to "roll" or to "chip out", as its typical deformation, when pushed to failure at a given Rc hardness, across its optimal Rc range?

3) My understanding from past discussions here of the most popular high-end stainless blade steels is that at optimum hardness for a thin edge, when pushed to failure, the typical damage one would expect is "chipping out". This would seem to hold true for S90V, S60V, ATS34 and BG42. Some of the 400 series stainless steels like 420J, though, are much tougher. Would anyone venture an opinion as to how S30V compares to S90V, BG42 and ATS34 for chipping and how its toughness compares with the toughest of the stainless steels such as 420J?

Forgive my muddled brain's attempt to frame these questions. I guess my idea of S30V's potential improvement over other stainless steels is that it has better strength and edge holding than most of the other high-end stainless steels like ATS34/BG42, and is tougher than any of them, including S90V (although S90V would have somewhat better edge holding). Is this accurate, and if so, how much better is S30V in these areas?

I really would like to hear more hands-on experiences that shed light on specific areas of comparative performance.

-w
 
Will, here's my take on it. I think your final conclusions are correct in most every respect, but in actual use I fully expect to see S30V outperform S90V even in edge holding. Here's why. A great deal of edge loss is due to microchipping, particularly in hard use knives. Because of its considerable toughness, chipping will happen much less with S30V than S90V, unless the edge is extremely fine, and that's not what you'd put on most "hard use" knives. I feel more confident in taking an S30V blade to a finer edge however, so that's always a balancing act of just how close you can get to the line where you give back some of its toughness by increasing its cutting efficiency. It's a tempting line with S30V because the fine grain allows you to give it a very fine edge. In the end though, geometry trumps most everything.

Paul Bos takes my S30V blades to Rc60, where I feel very comfortable in the balance between hard and tough. In large blades (>10") he drops that back to Rc58, since these are usually blades which require edge holding less than edge strength, i.e. these are usually choppers not slicers.

In my testing, the only steel that has done better than S30V is CPM-3V, where they seem to be about the same in edge holding - but again, that's with my edges in a mix of uses that test both erosion and micro-chipping. 3V is definitely tougher however. I have chipped S30V in very severe tests where 3V only flattened or rolled slightly. S30V seems to chip rather than roll, but I did things to it that I'd expect to chip most anything.

I was speaking with someone from Crucible recently who cited a case where in a non-knife application the customer got better "wear" from a tool made with 3V than one made with 10V. Obviously, the issue wasn't wear as we normally think of it, but microchipping. Unless you look at the edge microscopically, you really have a hard time distinguishing the cause of apparent "dulling" as wear or chipping. And just to play the trump card one more time, edge geometry and finish will often decide how easily an edge chips, no matter what steel is used.

Bottom line, S30V is great steel...
 
Originally posted by Kit Carson
You guys need to print this one out and frame it.

Anytime Jerry, Tom, Rob, and I agree on something, it's worth printing. :)
Click to expand...

Sound to me like Crucible mis-named this stuff. It should be called miracle steel. :D (Thanks guys. Great thread)
 
It's not really a miracle. It's just the first time one of the better steel companies with excellent technology said, "let's make a very good, high performance knife steel," then did so. We should applaud Crucible for their effort and encourage them not to stop there.

Signed:

Never Satisfied... :)
 
Well, I'm sorry I'm not a knife maker. But I will relate a conversation I had with Mike Obenauf last Saturday. Both Mike and Kit are hedging their bets and bringing mostly S30V knives to Blade.
I have one of Mike's small #2 S30V knives and I love the edge holding characteristics. Stays sharp alot longer than any D2 knives I own. And I am using my knives in the construction business.
In this case, I'm happy alot of makers are jumping on the band wagon.
(Don't we need some kinda picture of the four knifkateers?:)
Barry H
 
All: S30V is a true, high performance steel, with BALANCE.
At Rc 60/61 , it's strong, has great edge holding, can be made scary sharp, and is really tough. I love it!

RJ Martin
 
Tom, in turn, you could take a block of swiss and cut a knife pattern out of it and it would sell.:p
Barry H
 
Originally posted by Barry H
Tom, in turn, you could take a block of swiss and cut a knife pattern out of it and it would sell.:p
Barry H
Click to expand...

That's what he does, but only for his handles though. His blades are plastic... :)
 
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