S&W Talon hole?!?!?!

[David Brown]

The main thing I get from this thread is how far out of whack some individuals moral compasses are to condone or defend theft of copyright, trademark, or patent infringement. It is quite an eye opener.

As it should be for everyone.

Someone Defends intellectual theft..........................well draw your own conclusion.

I still support Jerry Busse he is an original !!!

 

[Raging Rhino]

You should make a successful company with a recognizable trademark, then allow everyone
to copy your trademark as you suggest. See how long you keep it.

Easy there, I don't condone copying trademarks, patents, copyrights, or intellectual property. IMO the Busse talon hole is rather unique, as are the designs and the steel they use. I'm just struggling over the "hole" thing. Trying to prevent holes from being drilled seems like a hard battle to constantly wage. The companies should contact Busse for permission and/or work out a deal. Peace Hogs Peace. Seems there is way too much energy spent debating this subject and people get way to emotional about it, questioning peoples morales even just because they have an opinion that may vary from the collective. It's ok to think and not just fall in line, unless of course i give an order . This country was founded by intellects who argued about everything and respected differing opinions without assuming someone to be immoral. All you can do as a Busse supporter is to let them know about it and let them deal with it as they will or can.

 

[chiral.grolim]

...I'm just struggling over the "hole" thing. Trying to prevent holes from being drilled seems like a hard battle to constantly wage. The companies should contact Busse for permission and/or work out a deal.

Yes, it does seem a hard battle, which is why hogs volunteer as watch dogs (cross-company pun intended) on Jerry's behalf. Only by defending the trademark is Jerry able to maintain it, same as for every other trademark. I don't understand what the difficulty is with this trademark being a "hole". The fact that a hole is a simple design is irrelevant. The fact that the hole can also be used for lanyard or guard attachment is irrelevant (esp. since very few people actually do this and very few sheaths are designed to accommodate it). It isn't just a hole, the placement also matters. Guy Seiferd of Survive! Knives is working on a patent or trademark for his "hidden lanyard hole" (and yes, it would be interesting if the traditional pommel lanyard hole was trademarked, but it is too late to trademark now as its use is to widespread). As mentioned earlier in this thread, some companies have been granted a trademark on COLORs. But it is more difficult to drill that hole than it is to etch a trademarked company logo or monogram. And it takes effort on the part of the maker to do it. All that Jerry needs to do is maintain a strong enough brand-presence & loyalty so that makers who DO use the hole without permission hear about it within short order.

This country was founded by intellects who argued about everything and respected differing opinions without assuming someone to be immoral. All you can do as a Busse supporter is to let them know about it and let them deal with it as they will or can.

NO, the founders of the US did NOT respect differing opinions with an assumed relativism! Indeed, there was a rather important war fought over the matter, and a rather key document explaining this, i.e. the Declaration of Independence. A century later, the American Civil War was fought over differences of opinion with key moral import.

But another thing that we can do to support Busse is publicize infringements left unchecked and dissuade others from purchasing from makers who transgress, i.e. protest. I, for one, would like to know if FOX Knives (and Extreme Ratio) of Italy have Jerry's permission to use the talon-hole or if, being non-US, they never requested said permission and continue to put out models featuring the hole. THAT would be cause for protest.

 

[Raging Rhino]

Yes, it does seem a hard battle, which is why hogs volunteer as watch dogs (cross-company pun intended) on Jerry's behalf. Only by defending the trademark is Jerry able to maintain it, same as for every other trademark. I don't understand what the difficulty is with this trademark being a "hole". The fact that a hole is a simple design is irrelevant. The fact that the hole can also be used for lanyard or guard attachment is irrelevant (esp. since very few people actually do this and very few sheaths are designed to accommodate it). It isn't just a hole, the placement also matters. Guy Seiferd of Survive! Knives is working on a patent or trademark for his "hidden lanyard hole" (and yes, it would be interesting if the traditional pommel lanyard hole was trademarked, but it is too late to trademark now as its use is to widespread). As mentioned earlier in this thread, some companies have been granted a trademark on COLORs. But it is more difficult to drill that hole than it is to etch a trademarked company logo or monogram. And it takes effort on the part of the maker to do it. All that Jerry needs to do is maintain a strong enough brand-presence & loyalty so that makers who DO use the hole without permission hear about it within short order.



NO, the founders of the US did NOT respect differing opinions with an assumed relativism! Indeed, there was a rather important war fought over the matter, and a rather key document explaining this, i.e. the Declaration of Independence. A century later, the American Civil War was fought over differences of opinion with key moral import.

But another thing that we can do to support Busse is publicize infringements left unchecked and dissuade others from purchasing from makers who transgress, i.e. protest. I, for one, would like to know if FOX Knives (and Extreme Ratio) of Italy have Jerry's permission to use the talon-hole or if, being non-US, they never requested said permission and continue to put out models featuring the hole. THAT would be cause for protest.

Genius. Comparing the premise of the civil war to a discussion about a hole. Something tells me that the war would have been avoided if the issue at hand was a hole in a knife. If nothing else, you proved the point that emotion overrides logic on this matter.

Back to the original thread...is the S&w ER knock off a copy of a Busse?....nope. Is it a threat to the Busse market... Nope. How many Busse buyers are buying this type of knife...or vice versa...I would venture to say None, nada... So remind me..what exactly is the issue? Oh that's right, we're pissed about a cheap arse knife that doesn't even remotely resemble any Busse that happens to have a hole. Productive.

 

[leatherman]

Ok, lets use another example to, I hope, clarify your confusion. Lets say the Nike "Swoosh". Its a shape. A shape? its rather difficult to wrap ones head around a simple shape causing such a ruckus when an entire boatload of merchandise came through with the shape on it. Not one on a sneaker. Is Nike to simply "let it go" because it didnt involve tennies? Are people going to buy this stuff? Probably. Some would probably think its ok and whats the big deal?

The fellow who invented the intermittent windshield wiper device had to individually sue several auto makers. The makers saw it and thought, "Hey thats useful!" and didnt bother to get licensing. Does that make it ok? Because its "useful"? Instead of paying royalties to this fellow, they simply took it. And yes, that is theft.

 

[Jerry Busse]

I'm locking this down. We handle our business matters privately.

We greatly appreciate those who watch out for our interests. :thumbup:

Jerry