S30V ! Hype or Hyper Steel?

[Confederate]

The best and most inexpensive way of testing this is to buy a Cabela's Buck 110 with S30V and a standard Buck 110 with 420HC. This will give you two knives with the identical blade configuration: shape, size, grind and edge, and the same impeccable heat treat on both knives (meaning that both will be done correctly, not necessarily identically). The knives also will have the same handles/frames. Plus, both knives can be had for under a hundred bucks...er...dollars, and that's for both knives together, not separately.

Finally, after the blade testing, you'll still have two very good knives to add to your collection if you don't already.

 

[Roger999]

I have a double dog dare that I'm too cowardly to do. Somebody, try to cut a cheap or worn Victorinox mystery steel blade in half with S30V and post the pictures. Anybody up to the challenge? I think S30V could do it.

Vivi on this forum tried it, both his UKPK and victorinox blade were damaged similarly when he hammered them together, but the UKPK was reprofiled to like 7degrees per side.

 

[Silverdagger]

Vivi on this forum tried it, both his UKPK and victorinox blade were damaged similarly when he hammered them together, but the UKPK was reprofiled to like 7degrees per side.

Thanks, you wouldn't happen to have a link? SAK knife steel on one of mine is soft. I have the smaller pen blade that is bent at a 45 degree angle.

 

[shike]

S30V is a great steel no doubt. But whatever Victoronox uses it is also great and holds a terrrific edge.

 

[topspeclt]

After a lot of talk on Benchmades, Spyderco, Kershaws, Customs suddenly there's a lot of talk about Victorinox recently on this forum. What's going on? Subliminal advertising?

 

[Silverdagger]

After a lot of talk on Benchmades, Spyderco, Kershaws, Customs suddenly there's a lot of talk about Victorinox recently on this forum. What's going on? Subliminal advertising?

Inexpensive and perfect blade geometry show that inferior steel can compete with the more expensive knives and steel. I don't know, but I would imagine SAK cuts more than bm, Spyderco and Kershaws combined.

 

[Buffalohump]

I dunno about your test but in my experience my SAKs get blunt faster than my Millies. Harder to sharpen = stays sharper for longer.

S30V is also corrosion resistant and pretty damn tough. I have a SE ParaMillie that I abused pretty badly once while drunk (yeah, I know) and it just laughed at me.

So I would say its pretty 'super'. Hell yeah

 

[Curse]

In my small experience with S30V (basically handled, cleaned and sharpened a friend's S30V benchmade) I have not been very impressed. It was VERY easy to sharpen, in fact, with ceramic hones I was getting a very fine layer of visible metal shavings along the edge that had to be wiped off. The steel seems very.. soft, it takes a great edge very easily, but because of that I don't think it could hold it too well..

Oh, and it did have a bit of spot-rust I had to clean

EDIT: Btw, head over to the Wilderness and Survival section and I don't think you'll find a single person that doesn't own and use a Vic pretty much every day, myself included

 

[Dog of War]

Edge stability of S30V is not particularly high, so ability to cleanly sharpen and retain a fine edge at low angles is not as good as many other steels, including many of the less expensive stainless steels with lower carbide content. However it's hard to say exactly what happened in this instance, as only two knives were compared, and we don't know edge geometry from sharpening. It's possible that the Manix either has a less-than-ideal heat treat, or the blade weakened from previous hard use, while the Victorinox may have an unusually good blade.

 

[topspeclt]

Edge stability of S30V is not particularly high, so ability to cleanly sharpen and retain a fine edge at low angles is not as good as many other steels, including many of the less expensive stainless steels with lower carbide content. However it's hard to say exactly what happened in this instance, as only two knives were compared, and we don't know edge geometry from sharpening. It's possible that the Manix either has a less-than-ideal heat treat, or the blade weakened from previous hard use, while the Victorinox may have an unusually good blade.

I've put my Victorinox through horrendous turns and twists, prying you name it and it is -still- A-OK.

Now I own a Leatherman Klamath and Kershaw ZT 0302 both of which are S30V and I must say - I don't like it. I much prefer 154CM or even 13C26 Sandvik for that matter.

If you can put an edge on the S30V easily you will lose it quickly too. I don't like that.

 

[Curse]

One more thing to note on Swiss Army Knives; you don't need to put the blade through any twist/turn/torque stuff... you have two screw drivers built in + other things

 

[topspeclt]

One more thing to note on Swiss Army Knives; you don't need to put the blade through any twist/turn/torque stuff... you have two screw drivers built in + other things

Of course, but I felt a little 'destructive' and I was so amazed by the blade so I wanted to give it some grief.

Looking for an excuse to buy another Vic

 

[MVF]

I have cut literally hundreds of copper wires (phone lines) with a small SAK (Vic Ambassador) with no problem.

 

[HoB]

I think the geometry is just too different to make a sensible comparison. And remember, edge geometry does not only include edge angle but also thickness behind the edge, which is probably at least a factor of 2 larger on the Manix than on the Vic.

In terms of wear resistance it is an equally un-equal comparison. There is not question that the wear resistance of S30V is MUCH larger than 440B.

As to cutting ability, edge holding, edge stability, it is all a matter of what you want to do with a steel and how you shape it (edge and blade geometry). Most steels (except for the really cheap ones) have each their advantage and if you are knowledgeable enough to take advantage of them you can beat out other steels in selected applications.

Personally, I have only satisfactory experiences and one really excellent experience with S30V. But I have never lowered the edge angle below 12 deg per side on my S30V knives. I am certain that there is an angle below which the edge stability is drastically reduced, and I have no doubt that this angle is larger than on steels with a smaller carbide fraction. I have also no doubt that there have been quite a few less than stellar heat treats on S30V in the past. Judging from the complains, the quality seems to have stabilized though. But I will say from my own experience that the Bos treated Kaala is a notch up from my other S30V knives which I never felt the need to complain about. But when Sodak for example says that he had problems with his knives in S30V I am inclined to believe it, even if I had not such personal experiences.

I think the real problem with S30V is that people still think about it in terms of a super-hyper-mega-turbo steel. There is no such thing. Adamantium exists only in comics, get used to the idea. IMHO S30v is on of several premium knife steels, with a pretty nice set of trade-offs.

One thing is for certain though. The difference in price between the Manix and the Tinker is not only in the steel (well, not to forget about the difference in sheer quantity of it). So if the Tinker satisfies all your needs to begin with and you bought the Manix only for the steel, you really bought the wrong knife.

 

[sodak]

But when Sodak for example says that he had problems with his knives in S30V I am inclined to believe it, even if I had not such personal experiences.

I'm trying to stay out of this one HoB!

I've had bad luck with edge retention with my S30V knives. I've never had the chipping problems that others have had, however.

There's an old rub about D2 (which I completely disagree with) that says it takes a crappy edge and holds it forever. My experience with S30V is that it takes a crappy edge and holds it for 2 cuts. Obviously, that's an exaggeration, but true in general from what I've seen.

I've sharpened it on DMT, ceramic, and waterstones (edgepro), and only the edgepro gets me a good edge. I find it *very* difficult to get a good edge on. It loses it's edge fairly quickly, from my comparisons (non-scientific), I rank it with AUS -8A. I was planning on doing more testing, but I aggravated an old elbow injury, and don't really want to try again. I'm tempted to offer a couple of these knives to some enterprising soul who wants to compare them on the same test.

The knives I've used are: Buck 110 and Vanguard, small Sebenza, Spyderco Native (Walmart), and Spyderco Manix. I gave the Manix away to a friend when he graduated from the Police Academy. The best in edge retention are the Bucks, the Sebenza the worst (by far). I had the Sebenza re-heat treated (it went from 57 to 60.5) and Krein thinned, and that helped a lot. But it still wasn't up to my Queen or Dozier D2's, so I got rid of it.

I think with the right grind and heat treat (above 63 HRC), you could possibly see great things. Phil Wilson sure has, and he knows a lot more about these things than I do. What is really unreal is that:

1. Fallkniven's 3G is close to S30V (from what I've heard), and I have nothing but praise for it. It's a *great* steel for edge retention and ease of sharpening - close to 3V.

2. Almost everyone else on BF hasn't seen this, which makes me wonder if I wasn't nuts when I was using it.

I don't know. My personal opinion is that S30V is crap. But most everyone disagrees, and it makes me question myself because a lot of these people are folks whose opinion that I value. A lot.

Maybe it's time I dusted off what I've got left and try again...

 

[HoB]

If I was still in the States I would have long sent you my Kaala to tryout, but my move and customs worries have kept me from it so far. I don't think you were imagining thing. Especially around the time when the first Natives were sold at Walmart there seemed to have been a large number of complaints but things seem to have quiet down since, so I hope the quality has stabilized. My own S30V knives are only from Spyderco and pre-date the Walmart Natives, except for the Buck Kaala which is less than a year old and I think you might like it (well, the steel that is). It feels like it is run harder than my Spydercos. But maybe I just lack the comparison of a nice D2 blade?

 

[sodak]

I was thinking the same thing, too bad you moved! Except I'd send mine to you!

Actually, I have Buck 110's in 420HC, S30V, and BG 42. They would be perfect for side to side testing. Anyone with a pair of good elbows?

 

[Roger999]

I only have a native is s30v and I use it for cutting alot of rope on my soft wooden table(using the table as a kinda cutting board), I have found it never blunt before, I've only stropped it every week and it stays hair whittling sharp. With my SAK's and the boker trance in AUS8, I've found after cutting rope on the table, there's sometimes a reflection on the edge when I put it under the lamp, meaning a rolled edge.

 

[me2]

If S30V were Hype, don't you think makers would be dropping it? But, then again, time will tell. I've had no trouble with S30V.

Not as long as it sells.

Keep in mind that there is a good range of hardnesses that different makers/manufacturers run on their S30V knives. S30V at HRc 55 probably wont be noticably better than 420HC at the same hardness. Holding a hair shaving edge depends mostly on hardness.

To answer the question in the title of the thread, there is some hype to S30V, but when heat treated optimally for the intended use of the knife, it can live up to the hype.

Sodak, was it you that said the line about D2 should read "it holds a crappy edge forever, after the good one is gone" or something like that?

 

[sodak]

Sodak, was it you that said the line about D2 should read "it holds a crappy edge forever, after the good one is gone" or something like that?

No, it wasn't me, but that's a good one! That should be a signature line!