S30V questions (Cliff Stamp u r welcome to post)

Jerry that's fine with me, how you choose to make your knives. The main point I really wanted to say is there are some damn fine makers who heat treat their own knives and do a great job doing it. I personally have 2 S30 blades one at 59 and the other at 61 rc. niether one was done by Paul Bos. One day I hope to try one done by him in S30. It's the best stainless I have ever used and I am glad to see it being used by as many as it is.
Tom whatever.
 
The CPM material in general is harder to grind. We have to make 2 passes for a good grind where ATS-34 or VG-10 can be done in one. S30V is less intensive to grind than S60V, yet offers more. Though we've not done it, I believe S90V would require 3 passes for a good production grind.

BTW. The CPM materials are intensive enough in grinding that we have to measure wheel wear which is much greater on the more abrasive resistant high vanadium steels. I would guess the custom guys go through belts.

As far as polishing goes, for production, we only go to a satin finish. This is where the custom guys shine. They can do anything you want. I personally believe it takes greater skill to polish the powdered metals. The kind of skill that requires "time on the wheel".

sal
 
This has been an interesting thread. With all the comments being made about S30V and how it needs "this treatment" or "that treatment" since it's introduction, I can say with total certainty that it is possible to achieve IDEAL MICROSTREUCTURE through in-house HT. How can I say this? Because I have done it, and have had Ed Severson at Crucible personally oversee the microstructural analysis of my work. His comments, in a direct quote are "Textbook microstructure".
I don't have a $1000 furnace. I have a $3500 furnace that holds Austenitizing temp to within better than +- 1/4%, and a Rockwell tester, and some other calibration equipment, not to mention quite a few years of HT under my belt. The Materials Engineering degree doesn't hurt, either.
Is S30V a cakewalk? No way. But, it can be done. Would it be easier to send my blades out? Yup.

As to tapered tangs, those can be ground after HT if quench plates are used. Is that easy? No, but, it's not unmanageable. Are there some severe blade grinds that might suffer from press quenching? Perhaps. I haven't had trouble thus far with any of mine.

Polishing the stuff is difficult at best. This steel masks scratches more than any I have worked. You polish, check, go down a grit, then another grit, and, suddenly some scratches that weren't there (or so it appeared) show up. But, that's the challenge, and, part of the fun.
 
Just a tip on those suddenly-appearing scratches while finishing S30V, I've found that if I periodically clean my belts, especially the fine belts, by holding a paper towel agains them for awhile, that is less likely to happen. I think what's happening is that the dust aggregates as it collects and forms particles which cause those scratches. I wouldn't have thought that would happen with Norax belts, but it clearly does. I know if a belt gets wet while fine sanding, the scratches happen big time. Again, I'm assuming the water is coalescing the dust into particles, so I wipe my blades after every dip in the bucket.

Taper tangs after heat treat? No thanks! :D
 
Jerry: I'm speaking of scratches that were already there but were being masked, but, yes, wiping blades dry after a dunk is always a good idea.
 
Sal,
Getting back to the heat treat issue at Spyderco, what direction do you think you will go steel wise, given the difficulties with S30V?
I have had an order in with a Spyderco dealer for a S30V Military and they seem to be harder to find than a needle in a haystack.

db,
If you might be refering to the gang dowwn in Vine Grove, I concur:
I have had great luck with my blades from Kit and Mike.

Barry H
 
Originally posted by Barry H
Sal,
Getting back to the heat treat issue at Spyderco, what direction do you think you will go steel wise, given the difficulties with S30V?
I have had an order in with a Spyderco dealer for a S30V Military and they seem to be harder to find than a needle in a haystack.

db,
If you might be refering to the gang dowwn in Vine Grove, I concur:
I have had great luck with my blades from Kit and Mike.

Barry H
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RJ every time I see one of your posts I am more impressed. Getting one of your knives is one thing I must do very soon. Barry luck has nothing to do with it. :) Dem good old boys can makes a knif.
 
Hi Barry H. We're not having any trouble with S30V so for now, all of our domestic production is going to S30V. We'll probably make some odd balls here and there with other exotics, but S30V is the plan.

sal
 
Randy, I thought they were already there as well, then found they were actually being created on a finer belt. But hey, experiences vary...

No question that Kit and Mike know what they're doing. Kit's among the best ever at anything pertaining to knifemaking.
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser
We have not successfully heat treated S30V in our own shop. Strange things happen. As we get better heat treating equpipment for our prototype shop, we'll keep S30V in mind. Right now we use a conventional electric heat treating oven.
sal
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Originally posted by Sal Glesser
Hi Barry H. We're not having any trouble with S30V so for now, all of our domestic production is going to S30V. We'll probably make some odd balls here and there with other exotics, but S30V is the plan.
sal
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Sal,

These two quotes combined (since you specified domestic production) seem to imply that you are outsourcing your heat treat for the S30V blades. True? Which is fine actually. Not trying to imply otherwise (boy, I find myself covering my butt on this forum).

Just out of curiousity, if you are outsourcing, mind mentioning who does your heat treating on the more difficult stuff?
 
On paper as far as edge retention goes I prefer S90V above anything else. However in the world it seems that the average, and or the above average person can't really get S90 as sharp as you can with many of the other materials that were already mentioned. Because of this I prefer steels such as S60V, S30V and or materials such as 6K. Then there is my first real love D2. In the end it really comes down to this question, you know how hard it was to make the money that it took to pay for whatever it is you are going to buy. So what can you really live with here in the real world?

Regards,


Tom Carey
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
There is a difference between good and best!

I send my knives to Paul.


The specialized stainless boxes he hangs the blades in before he sticks them in his furnace cost WAY more than one of those hobby heat treat ovens that many people place their faith in. And if you dont rockwell EVERY SINGLE KNIFE you are not testing your product properly.
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This would plainly not be afordable in a mass production senario, Puma make much fuss about doing this with each knife they make, but they are not winning any awards right now!

It would be great if 'production' companies using these top end steel *could* Rc every knife, but it is not going to happen!

I really think its great production companies are using these steels, but that *special* heat treat from people like Paul Bos et al will always? make a better knife even if the steel is perhaps not quite as good. Lets remember Spyderco products are quality sold cheaply and customs are extreem quality at a fair price.;) :p

Oh and thanks Sal for taking the time to answer my question!:cool:
 
Originally posted by Tom Carey
However in the world it seems that the average, and or the above average person can't really get S90 as sharp as you can with many of the other materials that were already mentioned.
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One word: "Diamonds"

Invest in the stones, and don't look back.

Joe Average doesn't know any better and just buys the sharpener they sell him at the sporting goods store.

But anyone who buys an S90V blade is buying custom, and huge majority of custom buyers own more than one knife, and are committed enough they oughta just buy diamond stones.
 
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