S30V? Really? – For the steel junky.

sodak said:
You can disassemble it and send the blade off to be re-heat treated, you'll have a whole different knife. PM me for details.
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Troop said:
Man, I'm going to jump on that ASAP! Thanks for the info.:thumbup:
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On the Sebenza I assume that the thumblug would have to come out. Then send in the blade for new HT, finish the blade and then back to CRK for a new thumblug. Or no?

Anyway, if you don't mind when you go through with new HT let the CRK fans and others know.:thumbup:
 
If you don't think HT is important, compare a $25 Buck 110 from Wally World to other 420/440 families of steel in a similar blade. That is one heck of a buy. I have cut RG-58C/U and RG-6/U with my older ones (I lost my oldest 425HC one!). I have stripped coax to solder on UHF & N connectors with one, and cut printer ribbon cable, too. A Sharpmaker is all you need to return a regular 110 to hair-popping. One day, I saw those S30V 'Alaskan Guide' Bucks in Cabela's catalog one time too many - and couldn't wait to get a 110 & 192 of that family. They were 'too pretty' - and that black Al-Ti-N coating got blemished on the 110, so I cleaned them for display.. until I could afford a 'spare' as a user. Last spring, my wife saw me looking at the S30V Spyderco Native - at Wally World - and snuck back to get me one. Last fall saw the 408 fixed and 419 folder Kalinga Pros in S30V arrive here. I have used them all - and that Spyderco has been 'abused'. All are fine - oddly, even the Native. I am convinced that their HT is good - I know Buck's is - they have Paul Bos!

According to Buck's dealer catalog, the 420HC is Rc 58, 154CM Rc 59-61, and their top-of-the-line S30V is Rc 59-60. I am not sure about their BG-42 - nut it is only available from their 'Custom Shop' in custom 110s. I have one - and it is a great cutter - but I cannot speak to it's long term use, as I don't carry my custom 110s often. That Spyderco Native in S30V is well used, having seen many cardboard boxes, letters, and clamshells (plastic blister packs) to open. It will still pop a few hairs, but I am anticipating some serious time at the Sharpmaker one day. My other, far lesser used, S30V knives are still super sharp. I think of it as a 'premium' steel, keeping my more easily re-edged 420HC knives for most duties. Despite the abuse, my S30V Native, or any of my Bucks so bladed for that matter, displays no rolled or chipped areas on the edge via an 8X loupe - neither do my much lessor used Bucks.

I think your problem may have to do with a bad heat treat - they all occasionally get them, or so I hear. My BM Grip has steered me clear of other BMs for years due to it's soft 440C edge. The SM will put a wire edge on it in a few passes, indicating it is soft. It then rolls and breaks while stropping (Mouse pad with Semichrome polish.), leaving it barely sharper than it was. The same process with my 110s and SAKs will bring them back from the butter knife drawer to hair-popping user.

I finally got a BM 201 Activator+ in D2 - it's better... sadly, I got my first Bark River, a Huntsman, that day - they are nicer - and I really like CS, like their A2. The convex edge is now my favorite, too. Still, for edge retention - under less than kind conditions - that S30V Native has proven to be a winner. I'd say S30V is highly capable.

Stainz
 
Xcel said:
On the Sebenza I assume that the thumblug would have to come out. Then send in the blade for new HT, finish the blade and then back to CRK for a new thumblug. Or no?
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If you want to keep it looking nice, yes, take it off first. Heat treating will burn off the color, and it will just look like plain metal. Also, if you get it tested, it will have dimples on the flat parts of the blade. So if you want to do this, you are truly trading looks for performance. Heat treat will also put a dark patina/oxide on the surface of the blade. You can get it off with elbow grease, as others have done, or just leave it as I did. I don't care much for how a knife looks, even a Sebenza.

For me, the gain in performance was more that worth it. You have to decide for yourself, though.
 
Stainz said:
I think your problem may have to do with a bad heat treat - they all occasionally get them, or so I hear. My BM Grip has steered me clear of other BMs for years due to it's soft 440C edge. The SM will put a wire edge on it in a few passes, indicating it is soft. It then rolls and breaks while stropping (Mouse pad with Semichrome polish.), leaving it barely sharper than it was. The same process with my 110s and SAKs will bring them back from the butter knife drawer to hair-popping user.


Stainz
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A wire edge alone isnt the only indicator of soft steel. The Sharpmaker, especially the corners, has small point of contact that can produce a wire pretty quickly. Try removing the wire before stropping. Also, if the blades edge angle is very far below the sharpening angle used on the Sharpmaker, a wire edge can form very quickly. For instance, if the edge is beveled at 12 degrees and you're sharpening on the 20 degree slots. The other issue you may be having is the SAK and 110 steels are more ductile to begin with, reducing the possibility of wire edge break off. Check for Jeff Clark's deburring process for the Sharpmaker. I have a BM 805 in 440C and had some burring issues, but after trying his technique, I get hair popping sharpness straight from the flats of the brown stones. Of course, you are quite right, softer steels present more trouble with removing burrs, I'm just saying the quick appearance of a burr doesnt always mean soft steel. And yes, I am a big Benchmade fan. Oddly enough, the D2 in my 806 wasnt all that impressive to me.

On topic, I have yet to try S30V. I think I saw a Spyderco in my local Wal Mart, so maybe I'll check that out.
 
Midwest Ninja said:
Doesn't CR put a hollow grind on? That might cause a wire edge, which facilitates eadge damage.
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How does the primary grind have any influence on burr formation at the very edge?



Xcel, your experience with the Sebenza is strange. After reading that, the GB destruction test and Cliff Stamp's Sebenza experiences I kind of wonder about their heat treat.

I've used S30V more than any other blade steel. It's one of my favorites. I've never had the edge chip or wear in an abnormal way during regular use. I've done testing with my UKPK taken down to extremely thin edges and seen what use it can take before the edge fails. I can baton it through wood, cut PC power cables, slice cardboard all day etc. no problem. The only thing that's damaged the edge so far is trying to cut coax cable and batoning the blade into another knife blade.

If you look at this link you will see some of the destructive testing and some incredibly low quality video clips. http://raum.10gbfreehost.com/Articles/UKPK.html

I've heard many conflicting experiences of S30V. I'm quite certain manufacturer plays a huge role because the HT can vary. If you compare Buck, Kershaw, Benchmade, Spyderco, CRK etc. they could very well have different edge holding and toughness abilities. It's not some super wonder steel, it's also not all hype. It's in between. It's a good steel for smaller utility knives where edge holding and corrosion resistance are valued, and you have enough money to pay a premium price.

I've mostly used Spydercos S30V and it's been great to me. I also own a Buck Hartsook which I reprofiled flat to the stone for an extremely acute edge. It never failed in use either, only getting a slight roll during testing when I was batoning it through knotty wood.
 
If I paid the going price for a Sebenza, I believe I'd be a little put off by the performance mentioned in the opening thread. I've stripped wire with many types of knives with many different types of steels. It requires a thin, sharp edge and I've had no problems with AUS8 or even 440A, both of which can be honed to wicked sharpness. I have a Spyderco Native and a Buck Alaskan, both with S30V blades. I've never tried stripping wire with them, but I don't have any reason to think that either would be a problem.

Knives are tools, and though they may not be designed for wire stripping, I know a lot of electricians and computer systems people who have had to use knives (one routinely uses his Case knife). S30V is a very fine grade of stainless steel, but it's not a miracle steel. Some people buy it expecting too much. Still, a Sebenza should be able to easily strip a wire. Once you get the blade resharpened, I'd like to know how it works out.
 
I thought this thread was dead and gone but I'll give you guys an update.

I can't remember if I stated that this blade was chipped by brown paper bag and a plastic combo from a corn chips bag. Or that it had problems with cardboard. Anyway it did. So I had it sharpened by a professional knife shop in the area.

I was not impressed by their sharpening skills but they did manage to sharpen enough to remove all the chipping and rolling. It came back sharp but not shaving. Sad, I know. I do better on the my Sharpmaker but there is no way I could get enough material off to fix the chipping.

In use, I really don't see "that" much of a difference as of now but I have not used it much since the Pro sharpened. It has not had any chipping problems on paper or cardboard,...as it shouldn't. I still have not used it on wood; whittling and such. Let me go check that out.......
 
Personally I've been liking 154CM over S30V for all around use.It simply sharpens easier for me & holds an edge very well.
 
....Well all I had was a shim that I could slice up. Hemlock I believe, not the hardest stuff. Well, not really that hard at all but still. No problems. No chipping or rolling of the edge, no dulling either. I'll have to do some more testing, long term. I'll give a review/update when I get done. The more experience I can get with this S30V steel the better plus it will aid in future purchases. With my current experience I feel that if the S30V, or any steel for that matter, is not sharpened correctly from the factory at the end of production then you will end up with problems such as the ones I and others have had. I don't know why most of the problems disappear after a good sharpening but I'm assume it has something to do with how the S30V takes to HT of any type. I really don't know. I'm sure someone has the knowledge or scientific explanation and I intend to find it.

And to reinforce the idea that this thread is not to spread a bad taste to everyone about the Sebbie. It is a great knife. Feel, design, quality, etc. are all top notch.
 
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Xcel said:
I was not impressed by their sharpening skills but they did manage to sharpen enough to remove all the chipping and rolling. It came back sharp but not shaving. Sad, I know.
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I don't know that getting it shaving sharp is what many people want from a professional sharpening. Putting a thin edge on your knife would have let you shave your arm, but it might not have lasted very long. Seems many people want a blade to bite a little when they touch it with their thumb, but that kind of sharpness is difficult to maintain. One of the local knife stores here has a sign that reads: "You bleed, you buy!" One of the sales guys told me that people will stand there and practically cut a finger off screwing around with a knife. Not wanting to sweat blood-borne diseases, they just made the bleed-buy thing a policy.
 
Confederate said:
I don't know that getting it shaving sharp is what many people want from a professional sharpening. Putting a thin edge on your knife would have let you shave your arm, but it might not have lasted very long. Seems many people want a blade to bite a little when they touch it with their thumb, but that kind of sharpness is difficult to maintain. One of the local knife stores here has a sign that reads: "You bleed, you buy!" One of the sales guys told me that people will stand there and practically cut a finger off screwing around with a knife. Not wanting to sweat blood-borne diseases, they just made the bleed-buy thing a policy.
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True. It was a couple of steps down from shaving sharp. It could cut paper but not slice it, if that makes any sense.
 
The thicker the edge prior to final sharpening, the better it will hold it when cutting metal wire.

S30V's decent, but only with a good heat treat. Of the commercial/ factory heat treaters, I would only trust Paul Bos to do it properly. :thumbup:
 
JTR357 said:
Personally I've been liking 154CM over S30V for all around use.It simply sharpens easier for me & holds an edge very well.
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Little more durable too. I've hit a metal pole with a good amount of force behind a 154CM folder, and all it did was roll the edge a little.

I've never had any chipping problems with S30V, but I'm pretty sure that would do it!
 
i've had more negative experience with s30v than good. the knife that finally opened my eyes to what s30v could be was a benchmade 615. i had already had bad luck with benchmade and spyderco's s30v but i got a great deal on this knife and it has been great. honestly though, i won't buy a sebenza until they go to another steel or until i track down a bg42 model on the bay!
 
Early s30v had chipping problems.
CPM s30v is a great steel for folders.
S30v can be used as a good steel for fixed blades if it has the right HT.
The Strider Noss tested had a Bos heat treat and look how well it did, while the GB had a Reeve's own heat treat.
 
After reading some of this post I was wondering how good my sebbie's s30v is so I cut up this phone cord real quick and it was still sharp enough to shave with after it was done...

Which isn't the best test but it's not bad.

DSC00814.jpg


Now I'm going to go strop it and keep edcing it.
 
I've never had any problems with S30V, regardless of the maker of the knife.
Maybe I've just been lucky, but S30V has always performed extremely well for me.
I think that it's one of the best, if not the best, folding knife blade-steels around.
 
neeman said:
Or knives are not meant to cut wire.

Test the steel on non-metals.
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If you've used a knife for everything you'd normally use one for and you haven't damaged the blade, then you obviously need to move up to more abusive material if you're like me and want to know the point at which certain steels fail, and how they fail (e.g. large chips, small rolls, slight dulling etc.).

In my experience wire cutting is a trivial thing for a knife to preform assuming to conditions are met: You are pushing straight through the wire using a hard surface as a cutting board instead of slicing at an unsupported wire (The latter will simply dull a knife quickly) and the wire doesn't contain any thick strips of metal like coax cable. Cat5 cable, PC power cable, phone cables, speaker cable etc. can all be cut by pretty much any modern steel used in quality folders using the technique I described.
 
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