S30V? Really? – For the steel junky.

Some arguments go on for years. :)

The blade of a Buck folding hunter is not optimized for prying. It has a broad hollow grind which does not give it much lateral strength. A Mora has a short sabre grind, leaving most of the blade the original stock thickness. Simple mechanics tell you which knife not to pry with.

We don't really know how well Moras generally hold up, since Scandinavian tradition seems to be to throw away Moras no longer performing well, without investigating or improving the breed. After all, they really are more than good enough for the tasks they're put to, as is.

Stainless steels are only recently approaching the strength of carbon steels. S30V has a great record for many different blade shapes from many different companies.

When someone like Olaff or noss4 breaks a blade with no quantification of the force involved, we have learned only that for every supposedly immovable object there is a countervailing irresistable force. We have learned nothing of the relative strength of that blade (or steel or heat treat or company quality).

Is S30V brittle? That depends on what brittle means. Depending again on heat treat and blade geometry, some steels tend to deform under certain kinds of stress, and some tend to chip. Those that tend to chip could be called "brittle" but this term is not pejorative, it is relative to other steels and circumstances. The "brittle" blade might be the proper blade for a particular range of tasks.
 
Olaff said:
I think S30V is Brittle & i will never buy an S30V blade again!
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Please don't. You don't seem to have the experience needed to use it properly. You said, "Take two similar knives in size and thickness and abuse them in same way. you will see the stronger steel." As I pointed out in my previous post, those two blades aren't even close to similar.

tok tok tok wok wok wok the Troll is Here :jerkit:
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No im the Troll !
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Olaff, even as a joke, trolling has a bad reputation here, and can distract us from the discussion.
 
My Sebenza were junk compared to the far less expensive Griptillians inc. the model Cabela's sells with D2 steel. The Sebbies would not
take and hold an edge or cut worth a flip in comparison in the field
under real world conditions. Long gone, but I came out o.k. on the
sales due to the demand for Sebenzas.
 
Well after hearing that guy's edge rolled cutting a wire(which I think it did) I decided to see if that was a isolated incident or if all sebbies are as bad as some people are saying and here's waht happened.

You can't tell from the picture but that's alot of wire cut up atleast a few feet...

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The blue is cat 5 and the white is coax...

DSC00820.jpg


It had no rolling and was still shave sharp after I got tired and stopped cutting all the wires.

I'm very pleased with the sebenza's performance...

As opposed to my ritter mini grip which had rolling after extremely light use...

But after I resharpenned it and stroped it the ritter mini grip became my favorite...

Until I got the sebbie that is.

They're both great knives but if I had to choose(price not being a factor) I would take the sebbie any day of the week.
 
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Wow. That's really impressive O_O

I've had a hard time getting a nice clean cut on coaxial even with a decent pair of pliers!
 
iamtoast said:
I was under the impression that for a given steel there is a trade off in toughness and hardness. The fact that a 5.5" or greater combat/survival knife has a lower hardness then a much smaller and thinner folder just seems to make sense.

Also, isn't hardness also an indication of edge retention within the same steel? Yes, I know there are other factors but the same blade with a higher hardness will generally have greater edge retention as long as it isn't too hard and you get any sort of shattering on the edge even microscopically.

My understanding is that you want a blade's edge to be as hard as it can be AFTER a knifes toughness level is already determined. A s30v blade, or any other steel for that matter, can be made to be much much tougher if it is left at Rc40 then tempered to Rc60. The Rc 40 edge can have an awesomely sharp initial edge but squat for edge retention. I'm sure that an s30v blade or edge can be hardened to Rc65 but it will then have crap for toughness and probably be extremely brittle. A different steel, like zdp-189, might be tough enough at Rc65 to be fully functional in a smaller knife, like a folder, and still maintain killer edge retention.

Before sending the knife out for re'heat-treating why not contact CR and discuss with customer service what happened. If cutting a wire or two voids their warranty then the company isn't worth your money. They might take the blade back for testing, who knows, they might have had an issue with that batches heat treat. Let them fix it before paying more on an already pricey knife to have it done by someone else.
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True, I concur with you statement. Sending the knife back to CRK was my second plan of attack. The first was to sharpen it enough to remove the chipping/rolling and use it. This has happened before from S30V users and the factory generally resharpens the blade, cleans/lubes the knife and then sends it to the customer for use aka testing. I'm still on this step. If something else goes wrong then I'll be sending it back to CRK.

enderwiggin said:
No, what you did with the blade is very important. S30V was designed to hold an edge for a long time, and will be relatively brittle compared to a much softer steel like whatever is on the Mora 510.
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This is true as well. S30V is supposed to hold an edge well, be "relatively" easy to sharpen, and highly rust resistant.

J_Curd said:
Dont take this as a flame, but you're joking right? The Sharpmaker can make a butter knife into a razor in 30 minutes.

S30V is the real deal. Dunno about CR knives, I dont spend that much (limited run, excessive hype, bonkers price, blah blah, overpriced...Busse syndrome), but the Kershaws, Spydercos, Benchmades, and Bucks in S30V are rock stars. The only steels on that level of overall all quality, imho, are VG10 (more brittle, i shaved metal burs off conduit before chipping the edge on my Native), A2 and D2.

I still love CM154. If you want the most wicked cutting edge ever, get one. It isnt as resilient, but it can and will cut like no other steel. Holy sharpness Batman!
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No flame taken. This was one hellva roll and chip. I think the medium stones for the Sharpmaker are something like 800 grit. No way near rough enough to do any damage to this problem. Using the Sharpmaker on my other steel is much easier (think 154cm, Victorinox stainless, 1095, etc.).

I'm starting to believe that the S30V is the real deal, it is just taking time. The more experience I get with this steel the better. I'll be able to analyze various knives and steels much better, which will allow me to come to a conclusion and write a review of my findings.
 
Lycosa said:
Use a wire cutter to cut wire. Were knives meant to cut wire?
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nope! My wave has built in wire cutters, and 420HC blades which is great by me, because I love it!

I made a mistake years ago with an old case cutting wire. Lost the edge, and never got it back, no matter how hard I tried.
 
nathan310 said:
Well after hearing that guy's edge rolled cutting a wire(which I think it did) I decided to see if that was a isolated incident or if all sebbies are as bad as some people are saying and here's waht happened.
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I did have a rolled edge and chipping. Rolling from the wire and chipping from some cardboard. Yeah, I know it doesn't make any sense but it is no lie. I had the knife resharpened on a professional machine. This removed all the rolling and chipping and I'm in the testing phase as I described above. I'll let everyone know what happens.

:thumbup: to the wire test. I was starting think I was crazy with everyone (not everyone but it did start to seem like it) telling me that cutting Cat5/phone cable/etc. was out of range for a knife's performance. Glad to see that the Sebbie and/or the S30V is not part of the lower rank that some seem to think.
 
Xcel said:
True, I concur with you statement. Sending the knife back to CRK was my second plan of attack. The first was to sharpen it enough to remove the chipping/rolling and use it. This has happened before from S30V users and the factory generally resharpens the blade, cleans/lubes the knife and then sends it to the customer for use aka testing. I'm still on this step. If something else goes wrong then I'll be sending it back to CRK.



This is true as well. S30V is supposed to hold an edge well, be "relatively" easy to sharpen, and highly rust resistant.



No flame taken. This was one hellva roll and chip. I think the medium stones for the Sharpmaker are something like 800 grit. No way near rough enough to do any damage to this problem. Using the Sharpmaker on my other steel is much easier (think 154cm, Victorinox stainless, 1095, etc.).

I'm starting to believe that the S30V is the real deal, it is just taking time. The more experience I get with this steel the better. I'll be able to analyze various knives and steels much better, which will allow me to come to a conclusion and write a review of my findings.
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My DMT coarse, fine and extra fine will have it razor sharp in minutes...

I recommend it.

I have sharpmaker too but I prefer the DMT they raise a bur in a minute or less.

It's just the honing and stropping that can take a few minutes.
 
Xcel said:
I did have a rolled edge and chipping. Rolling from the wire and chipping from some cardboard. Yeah, I know it doesn't make any sense but it is no lie.
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I believe you and made a point of saying I think it did happen in my post so I wouldn't look like I'm calling you a liar or disputing your post.

Do you strop with diamond compound after sharpening?

That helps alot.
 
nathan310 said:
I believe you and made a point of saying I think it did happen in my post so I wouldn't look like I'm calling you a liar or disputing your post.

Do you strop with diamond compound after sharpening?

That helps alot.
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No I have not. The first rolling happened with the factory edge. The chipping came later after I put it on the Sharpmaker. At that time I didn't feel the need for a ultra fine edge such as stropping it but it has been razor sharp because of the Sharpmaker.
 
It does miracles and you can maintain a edge for a very long time by stropping on days you used it...
 
nathan310 said:
Well after hearing that guy's edge rolled cutting a wire(which I think it did) I decided to see if that was a isolated incident or if all sebbies are as bad as some people are saying and here's waht happened.

You can't tell from the picture but that's alot of wire cut up atleast a few feet...

DSC00818.jpg


The blue is cat 5 and the white is coax...

DSC00820.jpg


It had no rolling and was still shave sharp after I got tired and stopped cutting all the wires.

I'm very pleased with the sebenza's performance...

As opposed to my ritter mini grip which had rolling after extremely light use...

But after I resharpenned it and stroped it the ritter mini grip became my favorite...

Until I got the sebbie that is.

They're both great knives but if I had to choose(price not being a factor) I would take the sebbie any day of the week.
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I tried this same experiment today with a g10 delica and a mini ritter when I ran into some problems.

After one single cut through the coax with the mini ritter it glided through but there was a very small chip in the blade.

And I dont want to ruin the knife so I stopped.

I had trouble trying to take a picture of it with my iphone because it's a small chip.

And the delica has to be retried when I have some work gloves because the hump started hurted my hand while trying to make the first cut through the coax.

I will let you guys know when I complete this.

I might work up the courage to just go all out and mess the ritter up.
 
Allright I did it!

And here are the pics

IMG_0158.jpg


IMG_0160.jpg


Sorry for the quality they were taken with a iphone.

The ritter did much better than I thought it would!

Although it chipped and the mini sebenza didn't...

The mini ritter seemed to cut a little better than the mini benza.

I have to say I'm impressed with the mini ritter.

It suffered a few chips but it could still shave.

And the chips which I will try to take a picture of when my girl gets home with the digital camera.

And if you don't mind sharpening that's really only a minor problem.

I'm sure I could have cut ten times that much if I had the patience and a pair of gloves.

I already got a big blister doing it.

IMO although the small sebenza wins without a doubt becuase it sustained no visible damage the mini ritter is much cheaper and if you not how to sharpen the chipping is a minor problem.

Althought they both use s30v there seems to be a difference between the two.
 
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It's the best I could do .

I counted around 20 small chips on the blade.

On second thought this knife got smashed by the small sebenza in terms of durability.

But the mini ritter seemed to cut slightly better.

So draw your own conclusion.
 
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