S30v

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W.T. Beck

Joined
Jul 9, 2001
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Some time ago I saw reports of edge chipping on knives with S30V blades. I am wondering if this is still happening, or has the problem been fixed?
 
The reports have reduced simply because many of the people who are having problems either switched to other steels or even had the knives rehardened.

-Cliff
 
In the current issue of Blade they say that the online complaints of chipping S30 turned out to be caused by people trying to sharpen their knives on sanding belts and ruining the heat treat of the edge. That was the first I had heard of this and I don't recall seeing anything about this sanding belt business on the discussions located here.
 
brewthunda said:
In the current issue of Blade they say that the online complaints of chipping S30 turned out to be caused by people trying to sharpen their knives on sanding belts and ruining the heat treat of the edge. That was the first I had heard of this and I don't recall seeing anything about this sanding belt business on the discussions located here.
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That's not true. I've had three S30V knives with brittle edges that chipped readily and often for no reason I could think of, and they never went near any belt sanders.
 
So if one wanted some blades with S30V what should one be aware of as to care and sharpening? I've ordered a Swamp Rat Rat Trap and reviews I've read seem to indicate that SWKW has their heat treat down but I also have my eyes on a Rukus and Manix which are S30V also.
 
My first Skirmish has the chipping issue (finally getting less frequent). Second Skirmish and RUKUS are OK in the regard.

I suspect manufacturers are adjusting to rectify the issue.
 
I've had one knife chip. It was not used for anything but opening plastic bags. I had never sharpened it, it was out of the box new.

I've never had a problem with a thicker blade like a manix chip out though in all fairness. Regardless I stopped buying S 30 knives though. I went back to VG10, M2, D2, and now ZDP 189. I've had very good luck with that.....so far. I have even gone out of my way to find an older version of a certain model knife that used to be made in 440V. Lately I bought my first Blue steel, and laminated SGS knives. I really like those both also.

An over reaction? Yeah, sure. Has M2 and D2 ever chipped? Yeah, but not for me. Why should I pay to buy a good knife with decent steel that I have to worry about chips breaking out on steel that has almost never been used?

To me S30 will always be tainted.
 
Nikokurausu said:
So if one wanted some blades with S30V what should one be aware of as to care and sharpening? I've ordered a Swamp Rat Rat Trap and reviews I've read seem to indicate that SWKW has their heat treat down but I also have my eyes on a Rukus and Manix which are S30V also.
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From what I've read and heard, the Rat Trap's are made by BladeTech (think "Wegner Professional Hunter"), and not by Swamp Rat, so the heat treat would be done by whoever does Wegner's knives. I'll tell you this, my BladeTech Professional Hunter (in S30V) performs great, and I've had no chipping problems with it whatsoever.

Regards,
3G
 
I have a Microtech UMS with S30V and it has no chipping problems whatsoever.
And I have an Alaskan Guide Buck 110 with S30V (heat treat by Paul Bos) and it also has no chipping problems.

I EDC the 110 and I'm very happy with the S30V's performance.
It cuts like a dream and it has a very aggressive edge.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I've EDCed several S30V knives and they all did fine, although the paramilitary did eventually chip noticeably, it was six months into use and I wasn't particularly surprised. So far, my best S30V has been from my Kershaw Bump.
 
I've done some light chopping and batoning with a Manix in S30V with no ill effects.
 
I have several knives in S30V. All have been used and sharpened on a Sharpmaker and I've had no problems with any of them. I have both size Ritter Grips, a Native, and an 80mm Manix, all bought within the last 14 months. All have been used for EDC (warehouse work cutting cardboard, thin electrical wire, etc) as well as campsite stuff (line, wood, zip ties). I really like the steel, even slightly better than VG-10 (which I really like).

I don't do any sharpening other than by hand, however, so no power equipment ever comes near my blades. I also haven't do any reprofiling on these blades. They all still use the factory edges except for the work done on the Sharpmaker in the 40 degree setting. They all come right back to a shaving edge with a few strokes.
 
maybe the companies are being more careful when the sharpen them to start with (I think most use a belt sander)
 
No problems here with either Manix or SMF, cutting materials up to plastics, hardwoods and cardboard, using relief bevels of 10 degrees with micro-bevels of 15 degrees. Prone to micro-chipping with micro-bevels less than 15 degrees on any of these materials.

Almost guaranteed to chip with any digging in dirt, re-pointing dirty stakes or root-cutting.
 
brewthunda said:
In the current issue of Blade they say that the online complaints of chipping S30 turned out to be caused by people trying to sharpen their knives on sanding belts and ruining the heat treat of the edge. That was the first I had heard of this and I don't recall seeing anything about this sanding belt business on the discussions located here.
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This is just spin, nonsense to anyone who even causally reads the forums. The amount of people who sharpen their knives on belt sanders is very low and you need to reprofile not just resharpen to actually overheat the edge. Now if they mean that the manufacturers themselves burned the edges, this was proposed by several because of the low grindability of S30V but it has severe logic problems.

W.T. Beck said:
So it was a problem with the heat treatment?
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I have seen S30V blades which did not have brittle behavior more so than other high carbon stainless so it would be fair to assume that the steel is as capable as ATS-34, VG-10, etc. . However I have seen S30V blades which even broke apart during sharpening. It is hard to tell what exactly is the problem because there are many things which could end you up at the same place.

If the steel had very aggregated carbides or the grain was inherently very coarse as supplied to the makers this would have that effect. If it was overheated, or under tempered, or too much time before after quenching and before tempering it would have that effect. It is also possible that the knives were overheated when finish ground. Since S30V is much more difficult to grind than steels like VG-10 the guys sharpening them could have leaned into the belts to speed up the process.

However it is hard to really accept any of these reasons because it isn't like those companies have no experience. When you use steels like D2 and M2 you know how to sharpen difficult to grind steels and the ease of heat treatment for S30V was actually one of its promotional strong points - as obviously was the toughness. Consider how it was promoted in the following which compares 440C/S30V. Note specifically the comments about heat treating and grinding and then see if the reasons commonly given to excuse the behavior of S30v don't contradict the promotion strongly :

http://www.crucibleservice.com/datash/S30Vvs440C3.pdf

It is hard to rationalize how people could have such high frequency reports of problems, defects getting replaced by defects, people seeing problems reported by 3 out of 5 blades even from different manufacturers, etc. . This as noted in the above has caused discriminating users to actually move away from it as a blade steel. This is also a push now on CPM-154CM which ironically if you go back years ago was, in the form of RWL34, one of the steels for which S30V was considered to be an upgrade. ZDP-189 is also now more of a hot steel than S30V and offers a much higher hardness and does better on CATRA tests from Spyderco.

-Cliff
 
I've had a S30V Military for a couple of years now. It's a great knife, but it did have its share of problems. The original edge on it was very prone to chipping. It wasn't until several sharpenings later (i.e., and never done with power tools) that the chipping went away.
 
many of the people who are having problems either switched to other steels or even had the knives rehardened.
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Cliff, I'm not sure how you define "many people", and I can only speak for Kershaw, but we have not had any chipping issues with the S30V that we have used. On the contrary, we have had many compliments in concerns with the performance of the steel. We rather like S30V, and have more projects slated to utilize it. This is not to say users haven't had chipping issues, but at this time, I would caution in putting that edge chip "label" on S30V.

As far as folks having knives rehardened, this will never happen from a production company standpoint. Manufacturer's are just not going to take chipped S30V knives back from individuals, and invest into rehardening them over again. Again, this just won't ever happen IMO.
Now if you are talking from the side of a handmade knife, I guess it's possible.

ZDP-189 is also now more of a hot steel than S30V and offers a much higher hardness and does better on CATRA tests from Spyderco.
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Although I agree with this statement Cliff, I would also add that ZDP is not going to be as accessible as S30V. Currently all manufacturer's can use S30V for any project, at any time, and most are. ZDP-189 on the other hand is almost impossible to get, with lengthy lead time being the norm. Most companies are not going to be offering ZDP, even in limited production. I can almost guarantee we would have varying reports from consumers should multiple manufactures be using ZDP on a regular basis. Unless there are changes with the distribution of ZDP, I don't see volume of this steel being used, thus at this time, I don't think you can compare the 2 steels from a volume production standpoint. ZDP just can't be had in volume. ZDP is hot right now, but your selection is limited, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
 
Cliff Stamp said:
Now if they mean that the manufacturers themselves burned the edges, this was proposed by several because of the low grindability of S30V but it has severe logic problems.
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Can you elaborate on this? I often figured when people have problems with chipping, etc, it's mainly due to the manufacturer putting the edge on with a belt sander or some kind of poewr tool that ruins the temper right at the edge. I know it's often been brought up and many people suggest resharpening the blade to remove the bad steel at the edge.

Is s30v more prone to having the temper ruined? If it's hard to grind/sand, would it spend more time on a sander/grinder resulting in the metal at the edge getting even hotter than other blades with steel that grinds easier?

I haven't noticed any serious chipping issues with my Benchmade Doug Ritter Grip in s30v, but I have reprofiled the edge and may have removed any potentially bad steel at the edge.
 
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