S35VN or S30V or ELMAX?

While I wasn't really trying to be argumentative with my earlier comments, I just noticed that I never actually answered the original question. My pick of the listed choices would be ElMax. Great stuff, from all I've read(and, with my limited use of the skeletonized neck knife Les Voorhies made for me)
 
I can expand a little on what Phil Wilson said about ELMAX. :)

I tested one of his knives in ELMAX at 62 RC and it is indeed very tough, holds an edge very well and will get extremely sharp. :thumbup:

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I did a full review on it here with photos:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792687&highlight=phil+wilson
 
Bark River made a knife out of CPM S35VN, two actually, but they were just test runs. Mike wanted them to be used hard, and comments have been posted over at Knife Forums.
I got the Custom Highland Special in that steel, but I have not processed an animal with it, yet. One reviewer has processed 20 deer, with his, before a sharpening. He did have to use 1500 grit sandpaper and strop it. http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/886279/tp/5/
BR has their Bravo 1 now in CPM154, I have not read the reviews.
IMHO, for a custom folder that will be "cared" for, I would not think the differences would be too noticable, could I tell the difference, I don't know. I would need the same knife, with each of those steels, and time to test them, to really know.
 
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Ankerson said:
I can expand a little on what Phil Wilson said about ELMAX. :)

I tested one of his knives in ELMAX at 62 RC and it is indeed very tough, holds an edge very well and will get extremely sharp. :thumbup:

DSC_1016.JPG


I did a full review on it here with photos:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792687&highlight=phil+wilson
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Your tests are quite entertaining, but I agree they are even more Informal, this is why results just repeat commonly accepted opinions formed here on bladeforums. So no difference between reading it in some discussion or reading it in your tests. What is the value then?

If you try to formalize procedure and eliminate random factors - it will be quite interesting to see, but for now it is just funny.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Your tests are quite entertaining, but I agree they are even more Informal, this is why results just repeat commonly accepted opinions formed here on bladeforums. So no difference between reading it in some discussion or reading it in your tests. What is the value then?

If you try to formalize procedure and eliminate random factors - it will be quite interesting to see, but for now it is just funny.

Thanks, Vassili.
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You have your opinion and that's fine..... ;)
 
nozh2002 said:
CTS-XHP has much better edge retention then CPM M4 and it is stainless and cheaper in production (for some reason it is now available only from Hiderer and price is way out reasonable range IMHO).

CPM M4 best what Crucible was able to offer so far for knife industry but it is not stainless and this moves it to carbon steel class. But among carbon steels this one only on top in price - there are many older and cheaper steels with simple composition which performs better. So what the point? I rather choose CPM D2 which performs same and semi stainless if I have to choose only from Crucible for some reason.

Crucible keep offering one "super steel" after another without much success - CPM S30V, CPM 154, CPM D2, CPM 110V, CPM M4, CPM S35VN... Latest one even worse then CPM S30V.

Latest trend seems to be to have own "suoer steel" for each manufacurer. Like Kershaw has Elmax (I rather prefer them to stick with CPM D2 which they do pretty well), Benchmade has M360, Spyderco has CPM M4. But unfortunately Elmax and M360 performs pretty average and it is became clear now even with this "Informal" test results - people start using them and see real performance. So this one "super steel" for each is not working really - after all there is no too many real super steels around.

I hope that sooner or later CTS-XHP will make it's way to us final customers. I do not see why it is not dominated market yet - it performs best, it is US made, probably not very expensive. I do not understand why after it first was introduced with great success early last year it is not yet more available. With ZDP189 we had much more models and manufacturers offering it after much less time it was first introduced.

Thanks, Vassili.

P.S. I do not see "toughness" as a factor o choose steel for knives. May be for skyscraper construction it would be preferable, but why for knives? Until someone want to do fencing knife against knife. Toughness of any steel just enough. There is edge chipping issue, but this has nothing to do with steel toughness and rather HT issue. For example it was a lot of cry about CPM S30V being tougher then CPM S60V, but with edge retention being several times worse little increase in toughness just does not make sense! And still I saw knife with CPM S30V with top ranked manufacturer being broken (and I do not remembe any broken CPM S0V). I value CPM S60V much higher then "tougher" CPM S30V.

It looks like toughness is usual excuse for any new steel to be less performing - to have worse edge holding. As well as "hard to sharpen" and other excuses to compete at least somehow with better steel.
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Take a look at this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792540

CPM-M4 far outperforms ZDP-189 here, and his tests are very thorough. D2 isn't anywhere near CPM-M4, either. And as for toughness, it can be quite useful. Take the Spyderco Gayle Bradley, for instance. Because CPM-M4 is so tough, they were able to put a high hollow grind on the blade that makes it very thin at the edge. This might have caused chipping issues in a less tough steel, but the blade is strong enough with M4. And because of that, the knife has a geometry that allows it to cut much better.

I don't see how Crucible's offerings have had little success. Their S30V seems wildly popular to me...
 
nozh2002 said:
Your tests are quite entertaining, but I agree they are even more Informal, this is why results just repeat commonly accepted opinions formed here on bladeforums. So no difference between reading it in some discussion or reading it in your tests. What is the value then?

If you try to formalize procedure and eliminate random factors - it will be quite interesting to see, but for now it is just funny.

Thanks, Vassili.
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I find it hilarious that you said that considering you ranked a stainless that was not designed for high wear resistance better than a stainless designed specifically for high wear resistance in a wear resistance test(cutting rope):rolleyes:.

It's also curious that nobody has been able to come to the same conclusion as you, even among those who actually own a knife in CTS-XHP and use it daily.

And considering the comparison between your "old" and "new" testing methods in which your ranking table was rearranged and several steels moved up and down several places, I don't think you should be giving advice to other people about testing consistency.
 
I work at a plant nursery and my knives spend more time out of pocket then in mostly cutting twine 1 ply up to four ply a lot of burlap and other stuff aswell zdp and cts xhp are bye far the best preformers I have ever used . List includes infi m390 s30 154 1095 aus 8 vg 10 h1 n680 and to me maybe its just my use xhp and zdp stand together in a league of there own that being said I havnt used s90 and I have cts 20cp on way both seem promising
 
Havnt used elmax or cpm154 but from endless reading I do on this addictive forum I would say majority would choose cpm154
 
I just don’t know what to think about Vassili.


There’s no doubt he is a genuine knife knut and has invested considerable time and money to this hobby AND been so kind to share his experiences with us for many years now. For that I thank him. I think? The problem lies in his “opinions” regarding the performance of our beloved blade steels. His findings are often VERY different than many others here, and especially conflicting of what some of our veteran “testers” report. This really has me perplexed because I don’t want to think any shenanigans are involved. ?? Does he have an agenda I’m not aware of? Too much vodka? :P This latest example was cause enough that I felt compelled to say something and ask. Can anyone offer a SERIOUS explanation?


What about you Vasilli, do you really think that Jim’s testing methodology is THAT FLAWED?! He has done a yeoman’s job of documenting, filming and sharing his results. As far as I can tell, he is a friggin’ human CATRA rope cutting machine. Don’t take this personally, but you might want to carefully think about your methodology and your “rankings”. There’s got to be something to it if you guys are getting such vastly different results! I simply have a hard time believing that having a freakin’ “notch” in your 2 x 4 is gonna make much difference nor skew the results so wildly.
 
I'm new here and it seems as this vassili guy has gotten under a lot of peoples nerves but from what isee he's results are right on par with how my knives preform on farm and I'm not sitting in a backyard for hrs cutting rope I don't know who on earth would want to do that I guess some people just have more time on there hands then I do .
 
And trust me no time for me to have any sort of side agenda 60 hrs a week at work and 10 at college. I'm just tired of seeing this so called test were people cut rope or cardboard forever and say its the end all of results either . I have a 755mpr and a zdp stretch and its not even close how much better the zdp preforms over the m390 that said jankerson has a test where m390 outpreform zdp wich is just insane in my eyes really insane trust me I wish I had an excuss to say that mpr was a good purchase at 150 cause atleast the m390 is good its just not like I said in my real world use
 
On a droid ....apoligize in advance for poor spelling and grammer
 
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I've been a user of CTS-XHP for a few months now, and have gotten a pretty good feel of the steel. I think Ankerson's tests seem to indicate how the steel has been performing for me since I've purchased it. It holds a very nice edge (about like ZDP) but also seems to be much easier to sharpen. Compared to the S30V blades I have, it also seems to have a finer finish to it, probably due to lack of monster vanadium carbides. With Vasili's tests, I'd be interested in knowing how new and how much sharpening has been applied to each knife in question. Ankerson found a noticeable difference between used/unused Spydies in S90V, as well as a large gap between production and Phil's custom Elmax.

Just something to think about. If history is any indication, I'm sure a certain party will criticize me for simply using my knives instead of making a spread sheet for my website. Regardless, thank you to both parties for conducting and sharing your tests. I enjoy reading this kind of stuff and comparing it to my own uses.
 
spydusse said:
And trust me no time for me to have any sort of side agenda 60 hrs a week at work and 10 at college. I'm just tired of seeing this so called test were people cut rope or cardboard forever and say its the end all of results either . I have a 755mpr and a zdp stretch and its not even close how much better the zdp preforms over the m390 that said jankerson has a test where m390 outpreform zdp wich is just insane in my eyes really insane trust me I wish I had an excuss to say that mpr was a good purchase at 150 cause atleast the m390 is good its just not like I said in my real world use
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You're missing part of the equation. Benchmade has often been criticized for running their HT low, and the hardness plays a huge role in how that steel will act. Unless you have blades of similar design and know what the hardness is at, it's a bit tough to have a good comparison. For example, isn't the MPR blade super thick while the Stretch is very thin? Of course the ZDP will seem like it cuts longer. Even as the edge degrades, the geometry is already working in its favor.

Not trying to pick on you, just food for thought. ;)
 
I didn't mean to neglect the OP's question.


I'm attempting to score some S35VN to test because of out of the steels listed it is the only one I don't have any experience with.

Of the three steels left, I can definitely recommend ELMAX over the other ones based on my personal uses and testing. It takes a wicked sharp edge and maintains it very nicely with no evidence of any sort of chipping. This is based off of Kershaw's ZT 0551. It sharpens up easily and at first I thought this was going to be a liability because it was "soft". Not the case at all. An excellent SS knife steel AND noticeable performance over the others listed.
 
Darn.
A whole lot of controversy here.
Both Nozh and Ankerson seem to have different results, while they both are pretty darn reliable sources of information (from what I could gather). This confuses me greatly. I have not tested these steels in a precise fashion like these two megaknifenuts, however I've used some of the steels pretty hard and for quite a while. I can definitely share SOME conclusions from my usage.
I honestly think that CPM-M4 is a whole lot better than Nozh gives credit to. In my usage I've noticed CPM-M4 to hold a better edge (and for longer) than my CTS-XHP. Also, the toughness factor has a dramatic influence on the ability to grind or manipulate the blade's structure. As mentioned, the very high hollow grind on the Spyderco Gayle Bradley. While some may say that the grind is probably what makes the edge retention to "seem" longer. I say SO WHAT?! If you can put a grind that will make a batter edge holding blade with one steel and not the other, how is the other better than the one?! :rolleyes:
ZDP-189 may hold a good edge, but the lack of toughness turns me off that steel. May work for some, but IMHO, I think it is simply too brittle for some users.

In regards to the OP. I also agree that the ELMAX steel is a very nice steel to go with. If you indeed have to choose one of the 3. However, you might want to take a look at some of the other steels mentioned in this thread. If you do, indeed, want an amazing steel offering with your custom.

Good luck.:thumbup:
 
Handwrecker said:
You're missing part of the equation. Benchmade has often been criticized for running their HT low, and the hardness plays a huge role in how that steel will act. Unless you have blades of similar design and know what the hardness is at, it's a bit tough to have a good comparison. For example, isn't the MPR blade super thick while the Stretch is very thin? Of course the ZDP will seem like it cuts longer. Even as the edge degrades, the geometry is already working in its favor.

Not trying to pick on you, just food for thought. ;)
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Great point I overlooked that aspect ... I guess because how dissapointed I was with mpr been looking at giving it another shot in that ndw bm roger has on his main page with the cf ti naklock m390 can't remeber model number now .maybe it will change my opinion
 
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