S35vn vs 1095

FrozenTurtle said:
On a .25" thick blade with a rock well in the upper 50s? Edge retention is not that big of a deal for me.
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What many folks may not be taking into account with a shallow hardening steel like 1095 is that even if you though harden it and the edge is like 60Rc, the thick parts like the spine will likely not be that hard. That is why you get an "accidental hamon" on some big knives made from 1095, W1, W2 etc. I have left all of my W2 knives, including big choppers, no softer than 60Rc and they are pretty darn tough AND have good edge retention. My brother and I skinned out and hacked up two sand encrusted wild hogs with a big W2 hunter and a chopper and neither needed any touching up of the edge. With simple carbons steels, you get abrasion resistance with higher hardness and IMO, the best way to get toughness is with fine grain size.
 
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FrozenTurtle said:
Are they comparable in anyway? I have never owned a S35VN blade,but I have a ESEE 1095 and a Tops. The 1095 seems very meh. I wasn't impressed with the ESEE 6 and the Tops only has a certain role I use it for. Thanks.
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All steels can be compared based on their material properties. Depending on the application some properties are more desirable than others.
 
jdm61 said:
Nobody and if you watch the video of the heat treatment method used by TOPS, you understand why. LOL. As for Kabar,they do not use 1095. They use 0170-06
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Kabar uses 1095cv , Yes I know the story behind it and yes I know it is the same as 0170-06 AKA carbon V. Really any manufacturer can add or subtract a little bit of this or that , give it a new name and BAM, new steel.
I have no knowledge about the HT protocol of any manufacturer. Only that they have to find a balance between cost and proformance. Also they would rather have a blade get dull quicker then have it break. We all know how people love to post pictures of broken blades. ( this is also why I think most knives are thicker then need be)
I still like 1095 & don't mind the upkeep.
 
TheEdge01 said:
S35VN is way ahead of 1095 in everyway, besides ease of sharpening and cost. S35VN is a premium grade stainless steel, 1095 is a lower midrange carbon steel.
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That is not completely true...

1095 is just plain tougher than S35VN. When properly done it can be use for good katana or sword while S35VN wouldn't.

And due to the naturally finer grain structure of carbon steel and lower carbide volume, 1095 will hold acute lower angle edge better than S35VN.
 
LG&M said:
Kabar uses 1095cv , Yes I know the story behind it and yes I know it is the same as 0170-06 AKA carbon V. Really any manufacturer can add or subtract a little bit of this or that , give it a new name and BAM, new steel.
I have no knowledge about the HT protocol of any manufacturer. Only that they have to find a balance between cost and proformance. Also they would rather have a blade get dull quicker then have it break. We all know how people love to post pictures of broken blades. ( this is also why I think most knives are thicker then need be)
I still like 1095 & don't mind the upkeep.
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If we are to believe their shop tour video, TOPS' HT protocol appears to consist of heating the edge in a propane forge and then quenching the blades in a really nasty looking bucket of oil. Not exactly what I would consider "best methods." 1095 hardened using "industrial standards" would require tempering cycles of 550-600F to reach the hardness levels claimed by a number of these manufacturers.
 
shqxk said:
That is not completely true...

1095 is just plain tougher than S35VN. When properly done it can be use for good katana or sword while S35VN wouldn't.

And due to the naturally finer grain structure of carbon steel and lower carbide volume, 1095 will hold acute lower angle edge better than S35VN.
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"Naturally fine" grain structure assumes tight temperature control, etc with a steel like 1095.
 
Are they comparable in any way? Whew... uhhh...

In one sense, yes. I happen to like both very much. In every other sense, they are not at all comparable.

What I need to ask you is this: What characteristic of the 1095 did you find "Meh"? And what was it you heard about S35VN that made you want to "get your hands on it"?

If you are trying to compare these to something that you own... well, what do you own?
 
jdm61 said:
"Naturally fine" grain structure assumes tight temperature control, etc with a steel like 1095.
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Yes. Assuming both are properly ht. The tight temp control are just a must for both steel actually. But 1095 might require thermal cycling normalizing depends on the condition of steel before hardening.
 
Velitrius said:
Are they comparable in any way? Whew... uhhh...

In one sense, yes. I happen to like both very much. In every other sense, they are not at all comparable.

What I need to ask you is this: What characteristic of the 1095 did you find "Meh"? And what was it you heard about S35VN that made you want to "get your hands on it"?

If you are trying to compare these to something that you own... well, what do you own?
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I felt like the 1095 rolled too easy,and I saw a video of a miller bros blade made of s35vn that seemed pretty dam durable. Plus I like that fact that it has better stain resistance.I also saw some Spartan knives that looked really nice. I own a Emerson made of 154cm,ESEE 6,Tops Snap knife,and KA BAR USMC knife.
 
Generally speaking, the HT is more important then the steel it's self. Assuming a Cutlery grade steel. I would rather have a 420HC blade treated right (I think Buck does it right) then a "super steel" done wrong.
I believe you could find s 1095 blade you liked. However S35VN is a great steel. I won't try and talk you out of it.
I am waiting on a custom knife now in 1095 if it were offered in S35VN at a comparable price I would have gone that way.
I guess my point is there is a lot of steels I would like to try but don't get hung up on the steel.
 
One thing that has not been mentioned is that in the past, we have seen some quality control issues with "commodity" steels like 1095 and 5160. The advantage that the custom maker and small manufacture has is that they can buy known steel smelted specifically for their nefarious purposes, or, in some cases, track down particularly good batches of steel. The most famous of the latter is probably the W2 that Don Hanson found, but their have been others. Early on, Aldo found a particular good batch of 1095FG and a pile of Schrade 1084. Likewise, Karl Anderson still has a pile of really good 5160 square bar stock. Others like Ray Kirk have 52100 and 5160 round bar. Some of the very best 5160 is supposed to be John Deere output shaft steel. At the other end of the scale, you can buy plain ole 1095 for not much more than $1 a pound from what I have seen.
 
LG&M said:
Generally speaking, the HT is more important then the steel it's self. Assuming a Cutlery grade steel. I would rather have a 420HC blade treated right (I think Buck does it right) then a "super steel" done wrong.
I believe you could find s 1095 blade you liked. However S35VN is a great steel. I won't try and talk you out of it.
I am waiting on a custom knife now in 1095 if it were offered in S35VN at a comparable price I would have gone that way.
I guess my point is there is a lot of steels I would like to try but don't get hung up on the steel.
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I have seen a Buck 110 sharpened to the point where it would cut you if you thought about it for too long. The guy who did that, Ian aka Longstrider from the British Blades forum, used to demonstrate his sharpening skills by taking that knife and cutting a cigarette paper free standing on its folded end clean in two. ;)
 
I have a Southern Grind Spider Monkey in S35VN that I am growing to like.

The Spartan Phrike is on my to-get list for this year as well.

I find the steel performs well, is easy to maintain, and sharpens without too much effort.

I see steels on your list that have those characteristics, but still are not comparable to S35VN.

If you want something in this steel, I certainly can't think of any reason to talk you out of it.
 
Velitrius said:
I have a Southern Grind Spider Monkey in S35VN that I am growing to like.

The Spartan Phrike is on my to-get list for this year as well.

I find the steel performs well, is easy to maintain, and sharpens without too much effort.

I see steels on your list that have those characteristics, but still are not comparable to S35VN.

If you want something in this steel, I certainly can't think of any reason to talk you out of it.
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I really like 154CM so I figured I would like another good quality stainless steel.
 
CPM 154 and RWL 34 idon'thave quite the abrasion resistance of S30V of S35VN,but they are supposed to be tougher. Buy all accounts, Elmax at higher hardness levels has a good combination of toughness and abrasion resitance.
 
Some knife charts have CPM S35VN up there with the toughness of O1 Tool Steel. Now i'm not sure if there is any truth to that but it caught my interest. In any case if that is the truth then Id say go with the CPM S35VN due to the the fact that not only is it tougher but more corrosion and wear resistant. It's better in -ALMOST- everyway except sharpening where 1095 would be easier I think.
 
FrozenTurtle said:
Maybe it is the edges on the two blades. From what I have seen or heard about S35VN I would like to get my hands on it. I was just trying to find something to compare it to that I own.
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When you get an s35vn knife make sure that you always touch it up so it doesn't go dull. Unlessnyou like 18 straight hours of grinding!
 
My shapton glass in 320 grit eats s35vn like a stoned out rat on a piece of cheese.

It truly depends on what you will use the knife for. Who is making and heat treating the blade etc not to mention your sharpening skills?
 
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