S35VN vs. S30V

chadridv · May 22, 2012

Hey Guys,

I'll start by saying that I am admittedly a pretty light knife user. I've put my Sebenza through a drywall a couple times, and I do some wood work here and there, but for the most part I use my knives for EDC chores (opening packages, letter, food prep, and other misc. light activity).

With that said, my all time favorite knife is my '08 Large Regular Sebenza w/S30V Steel. I have gone through dozens and dozens of knives and that is the knife I will keep forever. However, recently I acquired a 2012 Umnumzaan with S35VN Steel and I am extremely impressed!

After 2-3 weeks of a lot of consistent use, I just noticed my umnum is still hair shaving sharp. As i mentioned, I have had my Lg Regular for years, and it's never seemed to stay as sharp as this umnum is.

How is everyone's experience been with the S35VN vs. S30V?

Thanks.

JNewell · May 22, 2012

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...esponse-to-this-S35VN-Related?highlight=S35VN

Fourteen pages, 280 replies, kinda testy topic...

Ken44 · May 22, 2012

I only have BG42 and S30V in Sebenza's, but I have a Spyderco with S35VN. I have the same model with S30V, and they seem about the same in edge holding.
The S35VN seems to be a bit more easy to touch-up/sharpen, but that just may be me.

I trust Chris to choose a great steel, and feel it will prove to be at least equal to S30V.

chadridv · May 22, 2012

Yeah me too! Trust him all the way. Not sure why this topic would be grouped with a Testy or controversial tone. I admit my take is a very elementary perspective. I don't beat the hell out of my knives, at least not my CRKs and I don't claim to be an expert in steel or maintenance. All I know is that I am very pleased with S35VN, and basically observe that it seems to hold an edge longer than my S30v.

Side note: I have a bg42 sebe on the way! I'm psyched about that for sure

marthinus · May 22, 2012

I spoke to a metalurgist about S35VN. From a metalurgical perspective he stated that S35VN would be a better choice for a knife. It will over greater edge stability, polishability and options to the user to do either course working edge or a more refined polished edge at acute angles.

Speaking to makers they feel it grinds and drills easier then S30V and polishes much better.

It reminds me a lot about CPM-154 and RWL-34 but with slightly more Vanadium. Will have to check my facts on the percentages though. Either way, I believe it is a well balanced steel from what I have read from users on the forums after the steel has been out for some time. They all seem to report the same as you chadridv

I look forward to trying it out in future.

chadridv · May 23, 2012

marthinus said:
I spoke to a metalurgist about S35VN. From a metalurgical perspective he stated that S35VN would be a better choice for a knife. It will over greater edge stability, polishability and options to the user to do either course working edge or a more refined polished edge at acute angles.

Speaking to makers they feel it grinds and drills easier then S30V and polishes much better.

It reminds me a lot about CPM-154 and RWL-34 but with slightly more Vanadium. Will have to check my facts on the percentages though. Either way, I believe it is a well balanced steel from what I have read from users on the forums after the steel has been out for some time. They all seem to report the same as you chadridv

I look forward to trying it out in future.

Yep that's exactly what I meant when I said, "knife more sharp"

No really though, that was an awesome post. Thanks for the detailed description of the steel. It's pretty fascinating stuff to hear, especially to hear how a layman opinion of a blade steel can actually translate to the experimental and scientific data.

marthinus · May 23, 2012

chadridv said:
Yep that's exactly what I meant when I said, "knife more sharp"

No really though, that was an awesome post. Thanks for the detailed description of the steel. It's pretty fascinating stuff to hear, especially to hear how a layman opinion of a blade steel can actually translate to the experimental and scientific data.

My apologies for my bad spelling.

Here is a graph that shows the composition of the steels CPM-154/RWL34 (these two are very similar, only real difference from what I understand is the small variations in Vanadium), CPM-S30V and CPM-S35VN.

Lets go over the main differences.

Molybdenum (Mo)
: A carbide former, prevents brittleness & maintains the steel's strength at high temperatures. Improves machinability and resistance to corrosion. Present in many steels, and air-hardening steels (e.g. A2, ATS-34) always have 1% or more Molybdenum.

Nitrogen (N)
- Nitrogen acts very similar to Carbon in the alloy. N substitutes C in small amounts(or even large, with modern technologies), for hardness. Obviously, Nitrogen forms Nitrides, not Carbides. INFI has N, and there's few more, with Sandvik being the champion having 3% N in the alloy, completely substituting C. Sadly, not available for knife makers. Because Nitrogen is less prone to form Chromium nitrides than Carbon is to form Chromium carbides, its presence improves corrosion resistance, leaving more free Chromium in the alloy. Since Nitrogen is less reactive in forming Nitrides, it can be used for added hardness without increasing carbide size and volume, e.g. Sandvik 14C28N steel.

Niobium (Nb)
- Niobium is a strong carbide former and forms very hard, very small, simple carbides[NbC]. Improves ductility, hardness, wear and corrosion resistance. Also, refines grain. Also known as Columbium.

Nickel (Ni)
- Adds toughness. Present in L6 and AUS6 and AUS8. Nickel is widely believed to play a role in corrosion resistance as well, but this is probably incorrect. One more reason Ni is added to the alloy is that it creates brighter portion in damascus steels.

Vanadium (V)
- Contributes to wear resistance and hardenability, and as a carbide former (in fact, vanadium carbides are the hardest carbides) it contributes to wear resistance. It also refines the grain of the steel, which contributes to toughness and allows the blade to take a very sharp edge. A number of steels have vanadium, but M2, Vascowear, and CPM 10V, S90V, S125V (in order of increasing amounts) have high amounts of vanadium.

Resource used is Zknives.com if you are interested.

I do feel that RWL-34/CPM-154 and CPM-S35VN are focused on offering a balance for the maker and user. There are more then likely other steels also out there from makers such as Duratech, Bohler and Carpenter that seem to be very similar but I am to lazy to search for them now

JNewell · May 23, 2012

Ken44 said:

I trust Chris to choose a great steel, and feel it will prove to be at least equal to S30V.

Click to expand...

This ^^^ :thumbup: Obviously, I use my eyes, ears and brain, too, but well-know, well-reputed, long-term knife makers deserve some benefit of the doubt at least when they pick up a new steel. That doesn't mean we don't all have a learning curve or goof occasionally, but reputation and experience count for something here.

Ken44 · May 23, 2012

JNewell said:
This ^^^ :thumbup: Obviously, I use my eyes, ears and brain, too, but well-know, well-reputed, long-term knife makers deserve some benefit of the doubt at least when they pick up a new steel. That doesn't mean we don't all have a learning curve or goof occasionally, but reputation and experience count for something here.

I wish more thought this way. I am shocked at how much of the younger generation will look right past what someone like Chris(and other top makers) has to say in favor of a youtube vid put up by a college aged youngster.

RiverRat84 · May 23, 2012

Ken44 said:
I wish more thought this way. I am shocked at how much of the younger generation will look right past what someone like Chris(and other top makers) has to say in favor of a youtube vid put up by a college aged youngster.

Haha, agreed:thumbup:

dano · May 23, 2012

I have a BG42 Sebbie, and newer S30V Sebbie and a S35VN, all used regularly for cutting, and I can't tell the difference between the three. I find the super steel aspect of the hobby a bit silly, similar to the auto people who send their oil out to get analyzed, then argue about additives and blends...

chadridv · May 23, 2012

dano said:
I have a BG42 Sebbie, and newer S30V Sebbie and a S35VN, all used regularly for cutting, and I can't tell the difference between the three. I find the super steel aspect of the hobby a bit silly, similar to the auto people who send their oil out to get analyzed, then argue about additives and blends...

What do you use your knives for mostly?

I mean when you boil this all down, it's exactly as you mentioned, it's a hobby, and we all have our degrees of interest. There is certainly someone out there who would argue there's no difference between a Bradley Alias, Sebenza and Sage 2 (probably not in this forum

)

Another example, I love watches. I own a small collection. Do the details of the different movements interest me? Yes. Do I base which watches I buy on it? No. Could I tell you the movement of every watch i own? No. Some watch people would tell me I'm not a real enthusiast. To each their own.

I won't however call it silly, it means a lot to me to have to sharpen a knife twice as often. I don't have the time to do it, and I'm not very good at it.

JNewell · May 23, 2012

Ken44 said:
I wish more thought this way. I am shocked at how much of the younger generation will look right past what someone like Chris(and other top makers) has to say in favor of a youtube vid put up by a college aged youngster.

The internet has created a vast and boundless echo chamber, mostly filled with harmonics of the dark side of the Force.

Sorry, back to the topic at hand...

arjung · May 23, 2012

In my experience CRK's S30 and S35 both perform relatively similar. Decent performance and easy to maintain. Doesn't hold an edge as long as some other companies S30V (since they run it harder) but in most EDC use that's never really a problem.

I still prefer the lower carbide steels like CPM 154 but that's more nitpicky. Other factors are more important to me. If the design of a knife is solid with good ergos, aesthetics and geometry I'd be happy with most steels (with good HT)

CrimsonTideShooter · May 23, 2012

I've learned to love the S35VN. I don't know if it's my blind infatuation with all things CRK, or just that I've grown to not be such a steel snob. Either way, it works great for me for EDC. I have found that keeping the convex nature of the factory edge helps the edge retention significantly. Having a V edge is fine also (that's what I use) since touch ups are a breeze with a micro bevel.

cziv · May 23, 2012

JNewell said:
The internet has created a vast and boundless echo chamber, mostly filled with harmonics of the dark side of the Force. Sorry, back to the topic at hand...

That's kinda the truth. I would like to believe that it's not all on the dark side.

JNewell · May 24, 2012

cziv said:
That's kinda the truth. I would like to believe that it's not all on the dark side.

Certainly not

but if you could do some kind of weighted average I don't think the results would be encouraging.

I found CTS's mention of convex edges interesting. I have been doing a "micro-convex" on my blades recently and like the results. :thumbup:

rusty427 · May 25, 2012

Thanks marthinus, nice detail.

loglew · May 25, 2012

s35v....it has 5 more of something...so it must be better

cziv · May 25, 2012

JNewell said:
Certainly not but if you could do some kind of weighted average I don't think the results would be encouraging.

I found CTS's mention of convex edges interesting. I have been doing a "micro-convex" on my blades recently and like the results. :thumbup:

JNewell - how do you put a micro-convex on?