Safety First: Moped, Scooter, or Motorcycle?

[Noctis3880]

Alrighty, here we go again.

Gear is ATGATT full-face helmet, kevlar mesh jacket/gloves/pants(very cool, made for hot temperatures), and armored boots(just an impact plate on shin and ankles, but otherwise same as other modern boots). Gear is same regardless of choice. Driving tendencies is defensive and strictly off the freeway. Use is for a 5-mile commute to college(will need to carry in cargo maybe 20-25 lbs, including my breifcase with texts and macbook, and my locks), includes uphill riding. Speed will match flow of traffic(if able), no joyriding, no pedal to the metal.

Safety-wise, I'm wondering about the overall safety of the 3 types:
-No-name Chinese PoS 50cc moped, used, from craigslist.
-Honda PCX 150 scooter(2013 new)
-Honda Rebel motorcycle(2014 new)

Statistics from Honolulu data is interesting, with a 13.4/10,000 non-fatal injury rate compared to 16.8/10,000 non-fatal injury rate for motorcycles. 238 mopeds involved in non-fatal crashes compared to 300 for motorcycles(or average for the state of 61% motorcyclists and 39% moped riders). Not an insignificant difference, but not as bad as I expected given the naturally higher speeds of the different vehicles and the fact that anything above 50cc is legally classified as "motorcycles", making the numbers more lopsided.

Family seems to be laboring under the stereotype that mopeds are inherently safer than motorcycles, even if I might drive them both at the same speeds. Other than the inherent low speeds, I'm not sure why that would be true. I sincerely doubt moped riders are safety conscious, given the fact that only 1 in 10 might be wearing a helmet of any kind at all. A different study in Sweden puts the odds of moped crashes to be twice as likely as motorcycles. Fatalities are of course higher, but speed is again the factor in those incidences, and I have no plans to race down the streets at 50 mph anytime in my life.

I myself wonder if I might be right to be concerned about the size of the wheels on the moped and scooters and how they would steer and handle. One review of the PCX 150 states that during freeway use, the steering is "twitchy" because of the 14-inch wheels.

Fuel efficiency is another reason I'm considering the PCX and Rebel. There's a Yamaha scooter with even more mpg, but I don't see 50cc as a likely choice given the uphill requirements. And while I plan to stay away from the freeway until I'm more experienced(both in where to go and overall driving ability with a 2-wheeler), it's nice to know I either won't get run over by another car from behind or get arrested if I end up on one by accident(happened once, ended up at the airport miles away).

But I think by far the biggest reason why I would like a Rebel is their extensive use in MSF courses. I don't think they would stick total scrubs onto something difficult to handle and inherently dangerous.


So...
All other things being equal, which would be safest?

 

[WRGreen]

Since this is about knives, take your knife with you to the MSF safety course, then get endorsement. Being defensively proactive and well trained in street riding techniques is more important than the specific vehicle; what's between your ears and guiding your body (and your knife) is easily more important than what two-wheeler your ultimately going to choose. Completing the rider course will also allow for a better system of choice than fudged data and meaningless statistics. Then you can transport your knife better.

 

[Noctis3880]

Since this is about knives, take your knife with you to the MSF safety course, then get endorsement. Being defensively proactive and well trained in street riding techniques is more important than the specific vehicle; what's between your ears and guiding your body (and your knife) is easily more important than what two-wheeler your ultimately going to choose. Completing the rider course will also allow for a better system of choice than fudged data and meaningless statistics. Then you can transport your knife better.

While I'm sure the MSF course will provide you with a bike to use(probably a Rebel), they certainly won't(at least I don't see it on the class description) train you in the use of other 2-wheelers, nor go over any "quirks" of the other 2 classes(moped/scooter). I mean, I just assume anyone taking a Motorcycle Safety course would be someone already set in buying a motorcycle.

 

[VictorLouis]

Spent 13yrs in the bike biz. MSF training is provide on small bikes, like the Rebel, Suzuki GS500, or Gz, DR250, CB250, etc. In our city, scooters got popular enough, at least during the last GAS crunch, that they started a scooter-only course, with 150cc bikes. However, that's not the norm.

From what I know of HI, you have some steep roads to climb there. On a mere 150 like the PCX, I could see the machine perhaps bogging down enough to hinder traffic behind you, pissing off other drivers and making you subject to being cited, or even getting hurt. If your route only has 'minor' hills and grades, you may be ok. However, ANY bike will allow you to stay in gear and use the torque and extra power to keep pulling you along.

Wheel size is not the stability issue with that PCX so much as its shorter rake and trail, and wheelbase, which I'l leave to YOU to Google, LOL. Suffice to say, they are fine for the slower speeds and relatively flat city street use. As to stopping, well...that's about a wash. You're brining a heavier machine to a stop with any bike, less so with the scooter.

One more thing on MSF training. Your left is the clutch on a cycle, and conditioned as such. Then, when you get onto a SCOOTER, and your hand reacts to its left lever as a clutch, you will likely hurt yourself until you reconditon your reflexes that this lever is NOW THE REAR BRAKE!

 

[texas gun person]

Honda Grom

Vroooom

 

[Bob W]

a 13.4/10,000 non-fatal injury rate compared to 16.8/10,000 non-fatal injury rate for motorcycles. 238 mopeds involved in non-fatal crashes compared to 300 for motorcycles

The number of tools riding sportbikes at high rates of speed on public streets and the number of older folks riding super-heavy cruisers could easily explain the statistical differences between motorcycle and low-cc scooters.
The ability to interact with traffic on a more equal level, handling characteristics, and increased visibility are advantages of motorcycles.
The lighter weight and lower speed capabilities are safety advantages of scooters and mopeds. Not that they are safe because they're slower, but their inherent limitations mean they aren't generally ridden in the most dangerous driving conditions.

IMO, if you're going to spend the money on a single two-wheeled vehicle, get whichever is the most comfortable and whichever is capable of all driving conditions on the Island. Imagine not being able to cruise up to the James Campbell Wildlife Refuge just because you thought saving 35 cents a week in gas was more important than being highway-worthy?

Have you visited your insurance agent yet?
Have you investigated the riding class options yet?
Have you ordered that book?

 

[Noctis3880]

The number of tools riding sportbikes at high rates of speed on public streets and the number of older folks riding super-heavy cruisers could easily explain the statistical differences between motorcycle and low-cc scooters.
The ability to interact with traffic on a more equal level, handling characteristics, and increased visibility are advantages of motorcycles.

I did find this a bit curious. I was never entirely sure if it was because of the loud engine noise of most of them, or if because a motorcycle simply occupies more space than a scooter/moped, but I always tend to instantly notice a motorcycle, whereas a moped tends to just creep up on you quietly.

The lighter weight and lower speed capabilities are safety advantages of scooters and mopeds. Not that they are safe because they're slower, but their inherent limitations mean they aren't generally ridden in the most dangerous driving conditions.

Pretty sure people will still ride them in the rain here. Though if you're talking about freeways where you're more likely to get dragged into a multi-car pileup, then I'd agree.

IMO, if you're going to spend the money on a single two-wheeled vehicle, get whichever is the most comfortable and whichever is capable of all driving conditions on the Island. Imagine not being able to cruise up to the James Campbell Wildlife Refuge just because you thought saving 35 cents a week in gas was more important than being highway-worthy?

I do think having a highway worthy 2-wheeler to begin with saves me from wanting or needing to sell what I have and buy something else.

Have you visited your insurance agent yet?

No, I only checked out rates from Progressive. Is there a point if I don't know which one I'm getting yet?

Have you investigated the riding class options yet?

Yes, there is the MSF basics, MSF skills practice(twice a semester IIRC), and defensive driving(probably intended for cars).

Have you ordered that book?

Off of iBooks just now yes:thumbup:.

 

[Noctis3880]

Spent 13yrs in the bike biz. MSF training is provide on small bikes, like the Rebel, Suzuki GS500, or Gz, DR250, CB250, etc. In our city, scooters got popular enough, at least during the last GAS crunch, that they started a scooter-only course, with 150cc bikes. However, that's not the norm.

There's no scooter/moped course here that I could see.

From what I know of HI, you have some steep roads to climb there. On a mere 150 like the PCX, I could see the machine perhaps bogging down enough to hinder traffic behind you, pissing off other drivers and making you subject to being cited, or even getting hurt. If your route only has 'minor' hills and grades, you may be ok. However, ANY bike will allow you to stay in gear and use the torque and extra power to keep pulling you along.

Maybe? I know some people take a 50cc moped up the hill to the campus, I just don't know how long it takes for them to get up there. The PCX is indeed 153cc, but it's also about 100 lbs heavier. I don't think I'll be cited(if it can't go up that fast, it won't), because if I do move that slow uphill, I can stay on the right side of the road to let other vehicles pass. My concern with a 50cc moped is that even on flat roads, you'll probably move slower than the flow of traffic. And every person passing around you because you're moving too slow is just another accident waiting to happen IMO.

Wheel size is not the stability issue with that PCX so much as its shorter rake and trail, and wheelbase, which I'l leave to YOU to Google, LOL. Suffice to say, they are fine for the slower speeds and relatively flat city street use. As to stopping, well...that's about a wash. You're brining a heavier machine to a stop with any bike, less so with the scooter.

Would a 100lbs difference(between the Rebel and an average moped) be that big when braking? I can understand comparing it to an 800 lbs chopper, but I figure the Rebel is a small and light starting bike. Weight diff of PCX and Rebel is about 50 lbs?

One more thing on MSF training. Your left is the clutch on a cycle, and conditioned as such. Then, when you get onto a SCOOTER, and your hand reacts to its left lever as a clutch, you will likely hurt yourself until you reconditon your reflexes that this lever is NOW THE REAR BRAKE!

I figure the opposite problem is present. Bicycle riding is a prerequisite to the course, and I figure I might hit the clutch in a panic brake(probably more likely to squeeze both levers).

 

[Bob W]

No, I only checked out rates from Progressive. Is there a point if I don't know which one I'm getting yet?

Insurance pricing may influence your decision. Go talk to an independent agent who can give you price quotes from multiple companies, including Progressive. I found the least expensive two-wheel coverage at Dairyland, even though my cars and truck are with Progressive. The agent can also provide insight as to why different bike brands, styles, and sizes are more or less expensive to insure than others. Take with you a list of every bike model you're seriously considering. Your state may not even require insurance for a "motorized cycle," aka moped.

Yes, there is the MSF basics, MSF skills practice(twice a semester IIRC), and defensive driving(probably intended for cars).

The BRC is what you want. Full classroom and riding instruction. Depending on what your state's rules are, you may even walk out of the class with a license certificate.

Off of iBooks just now yes:thumbup:.

When you finish the first, there's an excellent sequel, More Proficient Motorcycling.

 

[Sid Post]

My recent history is ~1K miles a month on a Kawasaki KLX-250S. I also own some off-road only motorcycles with the KTM 450 4-stroke being the big beast. I can honestly say that I would have avoided one car accident on my motorcycle where I was rear ended while driving a Mercury Grand Marquis that was totaled by an S-10 Blazer. The reason being, I saw the idiot coming with enough time to react but, traffic did not allow me anywhere to go; on my Motorcycle, I could have lane split or jumped an 8 inch curb and freed myself completely from the accident scene. Situational Awareness gives you options.

Small wheels and a short wheelbase on a scooter are fun in the parking lot but, I personally have very little faith in the small tires/wheels after seeing some of the debris and road obstacles I had to avoid. I have yet to be on a scooter that would allow me the acceleration control to react in time to avoid "dead heading cagers." You also have suspension advantages in addition to better brakes on a standard motorcycle.

For me, a small displacement dual-sport is where it is at. Nimble around parking lots and residential streets. Powerful enough to run at speed up significant grades (off-road for me). Add 11" of suspension travel with its larger tires and I can hit "safety zones" where you can't put a car. The best place at the accident scent is to be somewhere else, whether the median, shoulder, or lane splitting where you can ride though and/or past the accident.

In terms of MPG, bone stock my 2007 Kawasaki 250cc 4-stroke dual sport did 119MPG commuting to work with an average speed of ~45MPH with a stretch at 65MPH and some slower residential riding. Insuring a small dual-sport should be pretty cheap too.

So, when it's all said and done from your choices I'll take a standard motorcycle every time.

 

[Noctis3880]

I'm not sure the ability to escape from an accident is something that would hold constant when comparing cars to bikes. I wouldn't argue with the safety features of a car. An alert driver behind the handlebars of a bike would almost always be safer behind the wheel of a car. I wouldn't deny that point.

My primary concern with the selection of scooter VS motorcycle is of course, the ability to handle unexpected bumps and potholes. I've never had good experiences running over things I didn't see on my bicycle, typically resulting in involuntary jerks on the handles. I figure the bigger the shock, the more I jerk at the handles in a panic. Though I'm not sure "twitchy steering"(I would assume turning more than you intended to) is a factor given that it should depend on how much you turn the handles, in which case I think width apart of the handles would matter more. Also it's more pleasant just for the sake of having a smoother ride with the bigger wheels and better suspension.

 

[Haze]

I'm not sure the ability to escape from an accident is something that would hold constant when comparing cars to bikes. I wouldn't argue with the safety features of a car. An alert driver behind the handlebars of a bike would almost always be safer behind the wheel of a car. I wouldn't deny that point.

My primary concern with the selection of scooter VS motorcycle is of course, the ability to handle unexpected bumps and potholes. I've never had good experiences running over things I didn't see on my bicycle, typically resulting in involuntary jerks on the handles. I figure the bigger the shock, the more I jerk at the handles in a panic. Though I'm not sure "twitchy steering"(I would assume turning more than you intended to) is a factor given that it should depend on how much you turn the handles, in which case I think width apart of the handles would matter more. Also it's more pleasant just for the sake of having a smoother ride with the bigger wheels and better suspension.

I'm lucky enough to have crashed cars, motorcycles and scooters. I have wirtten off one car and two bikes but have never killed a scooter...yet, I am only on my second though so there is still time.

As for riding out a potential smash it can be done on anything, you just need to be lucky. I hit a section of exhaust on my scooter last year at about "fast" and to be honest it was pure luck I didn't hit the ground. It just appeard infront of me in the head light beam and there was nothing I could do to miss it, it was lying right across my side of the road in two bits. It tore up the body on the scooter and I'm pretty sure I got some air too, if I had been on my motorbike I'm pretty sure things would have been much nastier at best. I can post pics of the damage later on when I get back home so you can see what's what.

The bottom line is that you will have an exciting few moments ending in a crunch at some point but I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor in what you buy. Buy what you like and the best you can afford, also be honest with your self about your abilities and experience. I have been an idiot many times in my life and one of them was most definitely the 600 Hornet.

 

[Noctis3880]

I'm lucky enough to have crashed cars, motorcycles and scooters. I have wirtten off one car and two bikes but have never killed a scooter...yet, I am only on my second though so there is still time.

That's not very encouraging.

As for riding out a potential smash it can be done on anything, you just need to be lucky. I hit a section of exhaust on my scooter last year at about "fast" and to be honest it was pure luck I didn't hit the ground. It just appeard infront of me in the head light beam and there was nothing I could do to miss it, it was lying right across my side of the road in two bits. It tore up the body on the scooter and I'm pretty sure I got some air too, if I had been on my motorbike I'm pretty sure things would have been much nastier at best. I can post pics of the damage later on when I get back home so you can see what's what.

Sounds like night riding, the lights were adjusted too low, and/or you were moving too fast if you couldn't stop in time. Did you manage to brake before your scooter ate the thing?

The bottom line is that you will have an exciting few moments ending in a crunch at some point but I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor in what you buy. Buy what you like and the best you can afford, also be honest with your self about your abilities and experience. I have been an idiot many times in my life and one of them was most definitely the 600 Hornet.

Oh, I would say the deciding factor would be the impending drama that is sure to ensue with the family(bro and mom). While I'm certainly not waiting for their permission to buy the damn thing, I honestly have no idea what they'll do when I ride home with the thing(either the PCX or Rebel, most likely the latter).

I bring it up because in their heads, scooter(or anything that resembles a classic moped in appearance, even if it goes as fast as any large bike) = good, motorcycles = bad. Logic and reason doesn't work on them. And my mother's response to my question of whether or not I would be hurt less if I collided head on with a car at 30 mph on a scooter rather than a bike(or bicycle)... is to accuse me of always wanting to argue with her(my last "argument" was why I should use this asian itch cream instead of the prescription ointment my dermatologist gave me specifically for my eczema). In other words, liberal speak for "do not question, shut up and obey".

I would say the biggest fear would be them sabotaging my vehicle in some manner(smashing it, disassembling it, trucking it off and dumping it into a river). Second after that would be kicking me out and disowning me(good luck, I'm paying a little over half the mortgage with 50% ownership on the deed). Third would be killing or crippling me.

Paranoia? Perhaps. My mother was the one who threatened to cut my hand off at the wrist with a dull Chinese cleaver(even more sadistic that she wouldn't give me the closure of a clean cut with a sharp blade and instead threatens to slowly hack it off) by placing my arm on the cutting board with the knife raised over it, and throw me out the window back when we lived on the 23rd floor. Empty scare tactics perhaps, but try explaining to a 6-year old that you were just bluffing:thumbup:. Ass-whuppins were of course, standard. I just don't know if being beaten until you're on your knees literally begging on a weekly basis for petty things like talking back was a standard though.


In any case, I'd be interested in legal recourse if either one wants to "help me for my own good" again. I just don't know if HPD would want to get involved in this headache. Would certainly like to ask the judge make a full year of psychiatric therapy a condition of their parole:thumbup:.

 

[Haze]

It was an unlit section of national speed limit road so it was a combination of the obstical coming out of nowhere and probably going too fast, if "too fast" is the right word to use for a scooter that only does about 115kph. It could have been much worse than it was, that's for sure. I saw it, broke for it, took evasive action and hit it the other piece of it.

This is the one bit of damage I didn't bother fixing, you can't really see it unless you look for it anyway. It tore out most of the under carrage and damaged other bits hear and there. It even bent the number plate, not sure how I managed that ? It wasn't that expensive to fix though, the bits that I replaced and the new number plate came to about $160 IIRC.

 

[Grayzer86]

Personally I feel that a motorcycle will be far more versatile. Longer wheel base, and larger wheels mean it will handle rough roads or obstacles better than a scooter. It will also have more power to make it more capable in hills or highway riding. You are much safer doing the speed limit than going slow and having everyone pass you. Not only due to possible collisions but also the fact that every vehicle that passes you is throwing sand or rocks in your direction. I ride a motorcycle and have for 6 years now and couldn't imagine riding anything smaller. Plus, if it matters, you will probably garner far more attention from the female population with a motorcycle than a scooter, just saying. It also sounds like you should probably move out, since it sounds pretty terrible living where you are.

 

[Sid Post]

I'm not sure the ability to escape from an accident is something that would hold constant when comparing cars to bikes. I wouldn't argue with the safety features of a car. An alert driver behind the handlebars of a bike would almost always be safer behind the wheel of a car. I wouldn't deny that point.

You misunderstood my post I think. A car will always be safer than a bicycle, moped, scooter or, motorcycle in a crash. As an alert rider, I have choices on my motorcycle that I don't have in my car. Again specifically, I can put my motorcycle places I cannot put my car to escape an accident if I have no other option to avoid things entirely. With road debris, I can ride over stuff that will take out my bicycle that I can crush with my pickup.

My primary concern with the selection of scooter VS motorcycle is of course, the ability to handle unexpected bumps and potholes. I've never had good experiences running over things I didn't see on my bicycle, typically resulting in involuntary jerks on the handles. I figure the bigger the shock, the more I jerk at the handles in a panic. Though I'm not sure "twitchy steering"(I would assume turning more than you intended to) is a factor given that it should depend on how much you turn the handles, in which case I think width apart of the handles would matter more. Also it's more pleasant just for the sake of having a smoother ride with the bigger wheels and better suspension.

Comparing a bicycle to motorcycle in this regard is like comparing a pineapple to a basketball. You have very fundamental differences in steering geometry and rotational masses. Sure you can jerk the handlebars, grab too much throttle or brake, etc. and cause a self induced accident. However, this is something YOU did, not the vehicle you were riding or driving.

 

[Sid Post]

Oh, I would say the deciding factor would be the impending drama that is sure to ensue with the family(bro and mom). While I'm certainly not waiting for their permission to buy the damn thing, I honestly have no idea what they'll do when I ride home with the thing(either the PCX or Rebel, most likely the latter).

If you are an adult, enjoy the freedom our fore fathers gave us all. Ultimately, the choice is yours not theirs, mine, or anyone else.

I bring it up because in their heads, scooter(or anything that resembles a classic moped in appearance, even if it goes as fast as any large bike) = good, motorcycles = bad. Logic and reason doesn't work on them. And my mother's response to my question of whether or not I would be hurt less if I collided head on with a car at 30 mph on a scooter rather than a bike(or bicycle)... is to accuse me of always wanting to argue with her(my last "argument" was why I should use this asian itch cream instead of the prescription ointment my dermatologist gave me specifically for my eczema). In other words, liberal speak for "do not question, shut up and obey".

If you are an adult, act as an adult. Don't be guilted into doing something you don't want to do because you are being brow beat into it or feel honor bound to follow parental advice that is poorly informed and poorly thought out. Or put another way, it's time to cut the "apron strings" and act as an adult.

I would say the biggest fear would be them sabotaging my vehicle in some manner(smashing it, disassembling it, trucking it off and dumping it into a river). Second after that would be kicking me out and disowning me(good luck, I'm paying a little over half the mortgage with 50% ownership on the deed). Third would be killing or crippling me.

If there is any truth to any of those claims, it's time to seek legal options whether it's filing a police report or contacting a lawyer.

Paranoia? Perhaps. My mother was the one who threatened to cut my hand off at the wrist with a dull Chinese cleaver(even more sadistic that she wouldn't give me the closure of a clean cut with a sharp blade and instead threatens to slowly hack it off) by placing my arm on the cutting board with the knife raised over it, and throw me out the window back when we lived on the 23rd floor. Empty scare tactics perhaps, but try explaining to a 6-year old that you were just bluffing:thumbup:. Ass-whuppins were of course, standard. I just don't know if being beaten until you're on your knees literally begging on a weekly basis for petty things like talking back was a standard though.

What you are describing is felony child abuse in many jurisdictions. Why would you continue to live with someone who threatens to amputate your hand or throw you out the window of a high-rise apartment building?

Free yourself from this type of abuse as soon as you can.

In any case, I'd be interested in legal recourse if either one wants to "help me for my own good" again. I just don't know if HPD would want to get involved in this headache. Would certainly like to ask the judge make a full year of psychiatric therapy a condition of their parole:thumbup:.

You are talking about things that very easily could be a felony in many legal jurisdictions. If you or any of your brothers or sisters are minors, I would strongly suggest you call Child Protective Services (CPS). No child should be forced to live in fear of limb amputations or being routinely beaten senseless for normal minor childhood issues.

If the local police won't help you, go to legal aid or the ACLU and pursue these issues in court. As for paying for 50% of the "home", I say it's time to hit the road and find your own way in life. Putting up with an abusive living arrangement is something no one should have to endure.

 

[Noctis3880]

If you are an adult, enjoy the freedom our fore fathers gave us all. Ultimately, the choice is yours not theirs, mine, or anyone else.

Well, sometimes I wonder if we actually still live in a free country, but that's a topic for the Political Arena.

If you are an adult, act as an adult. Don't be guilted into doing something you don't want to do because you are being brow beat into it or feel honor bound to follow parental advice that is poorly informed and poorly thought out. Or put another way, it's time to cut the "apron strings" and act as an adult.

No, I don't feel any guilt at all. I might just have an issue with confrontation(given how it turned out in my childhood, not surprising perhaps).

If there is any truth to any of those claims, it's time to seek legal options whether it's filing a police report or contacting a lawyer.

Hasn't happened, but I wouldn't rule it out.

What you are describing is felony child abuse in many jurisdictions. Why would you continue to live with someone who threatens to amputate your hand or throw you out the window of a high-rise apartment building?

Free yourself from this type of abuse as soon as you can.

Because it stopped when I was 14(verbal threats stopped when I was 18)? Given my choice of hobby, you really think I would put up with it if it happens now?

I've also observed a few former classmates and coworkers around my age try to make it on their own, away from family support. Doesn't end well. One guy was living with his girlfriend, which was all and well until they broke up and she found another guy within the week(she goes through her men like I go through my socks). My brother has his own roommate, and someone almost broke into the unit because she left the windows wide open when she left the house.

You are talking about things that very easily could be a felony in many legal jurisdictions. If you or any of your brothers or sisters are minors, I would strongly suggest you call Child Protective Services (CPS). No child should be forced to live in fear of limb amputations or being routinely beaten senseless for normal minor childhood issues.

I'm 26, my only bro is 34, and he participated in the abuse to a somewhat lesser degree(much more artistic, like locking me in the basement to "study" until I pissed myself, or having me stand up against the wall in a sitting position for 1 hour). As far as CPS, I never called them, but my school counselor did(in casual conversation, my mother mentioned it was because she saw the bruises on me, which mommy insists it was because I got hurt playing soccer, sure mom). They came with police, had a short conversation, mom was nice and friendly and smiling. Then when the nice officers and CPS lady left, guess what kind of fun I had for the next hour:thumbup:?

If the local police won't help you, go to legal aid or the ACLU and pursue these issues in court. As for paying for 50% of the "home", I say it's time to hit the road and find your own way in life. Putting up with an abusive living arrangement is something no one should have to endure.

Like I said, it happened a while ago. No evidence exists outside of my own testimony, and some details can be warped over time(I still can't remember whether she only dragged me towards the window and threatened to throw me out, or whether she physically stuck my head out the window). My brother insists that's just proof that it "wasn't that bad", because my dad would work his back over with a 2-inch thick audio cable. What he conveniently leaves out is that my bro would repeatedly get brought home by the police for shoplifting, whereas my closest brush with the law(in my entire childhood) was when the police showed up because I forgot the security code for the alarm in my house... at 6 years old, walking home from school.

There's certainly no threats to me right now, as I'm sure someone in the family might have noticed my collection of 50+ folding knives, 20+ fixed blades, and about 10 katanas/machetes in various lengths, all in arm's reach.

I'm also at the moment stuck between a rock and a hard place. I can move out here somewhere, and deal with the unfortunate reality that rent is nearly $1,000/month anyway(mortgage + maintenance = $1,800. My expected contribution is $1,000). I could move to another state where I don't know anyone and I would have to live there for a few years before getting a resident tuition rate, at which point I'd have to start my education from scratch and maybe get my Bachelor's at age 34 or something. Sticking around is actually the most financially sound decision.

I also want to emphasize again that I'm not living with an abusive family, but rather a formerly abusive family. I'm just trying to emphasize the degree to which they're trying to control my decisions, and I'm using my upbringing to show their thought process(they seem to think it's proper parenting and that I wasn't doing good in school because they didn't beat me enough). Basically, just showing whether or not I'm dealing with rational people, and wondering what I'm supposed to do if they do something drastic to stop me from riding on a bike that I paid for.

 

[Noctis3880]

Personally I feel that a motorcycle will be far more versatile. Longer wheel base, and larger wheels mean it will handle rough roads or obstacles better than a scooter. It will also have more power to make it more capable in hills or highway riding. You are much safer doing the speed limit than going slow and having everyone pass you. Not only due to possible collisions but also the fact that every vehicle that passes you is throwing sand or rocks in your direction. I ride a motorcycle and have for 6 years now and couldn't imagine riding anything smaller. Plus, if it matters, you will probably garner far more attention from the female population with a motorcycle than a scooter, just saying. It also sounds like you should probably move out, since it sounds pretty terrible living where you are.

I'm not so much concerned about attention from females, mostly because then I'd have to be concerned about their safety during a ride instead of just my own ass. Besides which, not sure if I should consider anyone who's attracted to me because of my ride, as they typically tend to be..."bad" people(?).

It was pretty terrible growing up. It's just petty annoyance right now when you're 26 and your mother tells you to take that whipped cream off that Starbucks Frappacino that you have maybe once a year, or how I should use homeopathic "folk" medicine over the prescriptions I have for exactly what I went to see my specialist for. I just feel like the motorcycle thing is just something that won't end with only nagging. My concern for any violence against me is something like dead last on my list of concerns. Much more worried they'll do something to my bike.

But perhaps I should see my insurance agent and ask if "family sabotage" is something I can get covered for in the first year?

 

[upnorth]

I've had mopeds and motorcycles. I commuted to school on a 650 Kawasaki and that got decent mileage and more than enough power. Just make sure that you aren't so slow as to be a hazard to yourself and others. Forget the briefcase, use a back pack. I used to bungee cord a metal detector across the back turn signals on my 650, worked fine. Wear a high visibility helmet or jacket.