Safety First: Moped, Scooter, or Motorcycle?

[Noctis3880]

I've had mopeds and motorcycles. I commuted to school on a 650 Kawasaki and that got decent mileage and more than enough power. Just make sure that you aren't so slow as to be a hazard to yourself and others. Forget the briefcase, use a back pack. I used to bungee cord a metal detector across the back turn signals on my 650, worked fine. Wear a high visibility helmet or jacket.

Got my eyes on high vis yellow jacket and helmet.

Actually thinking more of sticking to the briefcase. Total carry weight is about 17.4 lbs(macbook, 2 texts, one folder full of papers, and some writing supplies). I figure a backpack would have me straining against my seat to sit upright, whereas with the briefcase I could adjust the strap length so it sits on the pillion seat, and it just needs enough lift from me to keep it upright and on the seat.

I feel a topcase is non-negotiable as a means to store my locks(will not fit in briefcase with everything else) and helmet(don't want to lug it around in class).

 

[Haze]

To be honest a loud exhaust and a bright lights on your bike are better than a high vis jacket. I'm not saying they don't have their place and don't help, but most people are not even looking to start with so it's best to have as many "external stimuli" as possible.

Got my eyes on high vis yellow jacket and helmet.

Actually thinking more of sticking to the briefcase. Total carry weight is about 17.4 lbs(macbook, 2 texts, one folder full of papers, and some writing supplies). I figure a backpack would have me straining against my seat to sit upright, whereas with the briefcase I could adjust the strap length so it sits on the pillion seat, and it just needs enough lift from me to keep it upright and on the seat.

I feel a topcase is non-negotiable as a means to store my locks(will not fit in briefcase with everything else) and helmet(don't want to lug it around in class).

 

[Noctis3880]

Regrettably, I believe the Rebel is touted for having a quiet engine. I think a super loud Harley is outside of my intended budget(personally think above $4k is a bit much for a first motorcycle). Still, I suspect it's louder than any scooter or moped.

 

[Haze]

You can get an after market exhaust for any scooter or bike, they are cheap and loud enough for people in cars to hear you. Riding with lights on all the time helps get you noticed too. Jackets and the like are indeed obvious but only when you actually see them, when you are riding up to a line of traffic or what have you people infront of you are not seeing your high vis vest or bright helmet.

I have had more scares with idiots not looking before they change lanes or pull over to the side for no obvious reason with out indicating than any other near miss. It happened to me today infact, but I'm riding in Taiwan where generally the drivers are the most switched off, selfish and dizziest drivers you are likely to see anywhere on the planet so it actually happens all the time.

Regrettably, I believe the Rebel is touted for having a quiet engine. I think a super loud Harley is outside of my intended budget(personally think above $4k is a bit much for a first motorcycle). Still, I suspect it's louder than any scooter or moped.

 

[Noctis3880]

You can get an after market exhaust for any scooter or bike, they are cheap and loud enough for people in cars to hear you. Riding with lights on all the time helps get you noticed too. Jackets and the like are indeed obvious but only when you actually see them, when you are riding up to a line of traffic or what have you people infront of you are not seeing your high vis vest or bright helmet.

I have had more scares with idiots not looking before they change lanes or pull over to the side for no obvious reason with out indicating than any other near miss. It happened to me today infact, but I'm riding in Taiwan where generally the drivers are the most switched off, selfish and dizziest drivers you are likely to see anywhere on the planet so it actually happens all the time.

Probably best to go slow then. Maybe that, and all motorcycles should be equipped with bumpers...with protruding spikes made out of stainless steel and housing tungsten carbide tips:thumbup:. One little bump, and I'm sure the idiot will pass on word to all his relatives about how his windows got shattered. Either that, or he can bring his friends along to teach you a lesson about how to use those bumpers on people too.

 

[Sid Post]

To be honest a loud exhaust and a bright lights on your bike are better than a high vis jacket. I'm not saying they don't have their place and don't help, but most people are not even looking to start with so it's best to have as many "external stimuli" as possible.

High beams on a cruiser is a good way to have a head on collision. What do you think really happens when someone high beams you? I had a guy on a sport bike with flashing low/high beams like he was a cop. Turns out his daylight sensor was broken. That's a really expensive ticket.

Loud exhausts will get you a ticket as well where I live if it is too loud. Thanks to college kid parties and the gang elements with pimped out rides, the local cops have way too many decibel meters and use them every chance they get.

 

[Sid Post]

Got my eyes on high vis yellow jacket and helmet.

British safety green is more visibly than Safety Orange or Yellow. All three are better than nothing.

 

[Sid Post]

Probably best to go slow then. Maybe that, and all motorcycles should be equipped with bumpers...with protruding spikes made out of stainless steel and housing tungsten carbide tips:thumbup:. One little bump, and I'm sure the idiot will pass on word to all his relatives about how his windows got shattered. Either that, or he can bring his friends along to teach you a lesson about how to use those bumpers on people too.

The best thing is to be observant, don't tailgate, don't hold back traffic, and look far enough down the road to be "clairvoyant" so you aren't surprised with a sudden turn, panic stop, etc. because you can see what the driver in front of you is seeing.

Seriously, I don't follow vans or trucks and don't ride beside anyone if I can avoid it. When the cager straddles a box, I see it with enough time to avoid it. When they make an unsignaled turn I'm not surprised because I can see the side street coming. I know the panic stop is coming because I can see the kids chasing a ball into the street........

 

[Haze]

You're telling me about stuff I didn't say and making assumptions. I said bright lights, that being any modern bulb these days, I didn't say high beams. I have been riding for a long time and have yet to get a ticket or even stopped for any exhaust noise. I have been stopped at road blocks/check points, for speeding, for the sake of it and for reasons unknown but never for noise. I also don't care, I'm more interested in keeping my self in one piece.

High beams on a cruiser is a good way to have a head on collision. What do you think really happens when someone high beams you? I had a guy on a sport bike with flashing low/high beams like he was a cop. Turns out his daylight sensor was broken. That's a really expensive ticket.

Loud exhausts will get you a ticket as well where I live if it is too loud. Thanks to college kid parties and the gang elements with pimped out rides, the local cops have way too many decibel meters and use them every chance they get.

 

[Noctis3880]

British safety green is more visibly than Safety Orange or Yellow. All three are better than nothing.

Yeah, don't think they have that tone of green available for the gear I'm looking at(Motoport Kevlar Mesh w/ Quad Armor).

Glowing review of it here(crash tested, with pictures):
http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10919075

I'd personally prefer venom green myself:thumbup:.

You're telling me about stuff I didn't say and making assumptions. I said bright lights, that being any modern bulb these days, I didn't say high beams. I have been riding for a long time and have yet to get a ticket or even stopped for any exhaust noise. I have been stopped at road blocks/check points, for speeding, for the sake of it and for reasons unknown but never for noise. I also don't care, I'm more interested in keeping my self in one piece.

I might upgrade the lights(maybe custom LED) if I find myself doing some more night riding.

And while I've never seen anyone stopped for a loud exhaust, I believe there was a state law that specifically mentioned something regarding not modifying the muffler to deliberately allow more noise through. I figure with factory parts, they can send their complaints to Honda.

 

[Haze]

If you're buying a new bike it will have quality modern bulbs in it anyway, no need to upgrade unless you want a coloured tint or as you say want LED conversions. There are indeed some stupid loud exhausts for bikes but those are not what I'm talking about. I also really don't care what the useless Taiwanese police might have to say about it or anyone else for that matter. It gives me an extra chance on the most insane roads I have ever ridden on and that is all I'm bothered about.

 

[Noctis3880]

If you're buying a new bike it will have quality modern bulbs in it anyway, no need to upgrade unless you want a coloured tint or as you say want LED conversions. There are indeed some stupid loud exhausts for bikes but those are not what I'm talking about. I also really don't care what the useless Taiwanese police might have to say about it or anyone else for that matter. It gives me an extra chance on the most insane roads I have ever ridden on and that is all I'm bothered about.

I might care about what the police have to say after they've fined me a few times, revoke my license, and impound my vehicle:thumbup:. Sounds like the Taiwanese police are wusses. But then again, Hawaii roads are probably better than Taiwan roads.


Still kind of curious:
Does it matter whether you sit on a bicycle, moped(law defines such vehicles as capable of going no faster than 30 mph on an even road), scooter, or motorcycle when you hit a car or fall off at 30 mph?

I only ask because I can't see much logic in this irrational fear of motorcycles when I can easily achieve 30-35 mph simply by sitting on(not even pedaling) a bicycle on the downslope of a small bridge spanning a few hundred feet, and I already don't feel safe with only a helmet and leather gloves, yet I would bet my custom Andrew Demko AD-10 that if I told my family I would be riding my bicycle downhill for a mile on the road with just that gear(helmet, gloves, T-shirt, regular cotton pants), they would have no problem with it.

Kind of curious about the opinions of other parents on here and whether or not you would personally try to stop(not merely attempt to convince otherwise) your child who is 26, has a job, pays more than half the mortgage, and is paying for their college tuition, from buying a motorcycle. I figure a true American parent would only go so far as to make sure your kid is doing it in a safe manner(ATGATT, MSF courses), as opposed to telling them what they can and cannot do with the money they earned, if they're meeting their financial obligations.

 

[Haze]

It's not quite true that falling off a bicycle Vs a bike at 30mph is going to be a similar experience. A bicycle weighs nothing next to a scooter or bike and anything with an engine has a hot exhaust to potentially make things even better when you fall off. That extra weight and mass does change things during an impact or spill. A biker is often thrown by a motorbike in a way that a cyclist is not. That extra wight has to do something when the worst happens and you are sitting on that extra weight... at least for a few emotional moments anyway.

There is nothing you can do outside of wearing protection and not charging about like a mad man on the roads. It will just be a case of dealing with it at the time a crash happens. Don't spend anytime worrying about it or mulling the inumerable different situations that could happen over and over. The odds are that something will happen at some point but it's not a given.

 

[Noctis3880]

True, but if we're comparing a moped(about 203 lbs dry weight) and a starter motorcycle like a Honda Rebel(331 lbs curb weight), would that be a huge difference?

I can understand some differences with injury type, but what about fatality? Because I figure it's almost always going to be a head or neck injury that ends up killing you, and that likely won't change upon vehicle type unless your neck somehow got crushed under your bike. Now I suspect having a full face helmet could protect you better from projectiles(could just be a small rock), or having your face literally kissing the pavement in a spill, but I think hell would freeze over before you catch a cyclist with one of those.

As far as impacts, I'm pretty sure they all tend to end up like this, even on an 800 lbs chopper:
[youtube]Had20POo6ZA[/youtube]

Btw, I suspect that was taken in Thailand(guy drove right through the red light).

The fundamental problem being that 2-wheelers don't have a "crushable" frame to absorb impact, so any additional impact that the extra weight can absorb is more or less a moot point.

My personal opinion is that fatality should be the same at all speeds, and depends on the helmet type. Injury could vary as you said due to weight, but I feel that's almost 100% dependent on your safety gear.

I would bet that a cyclist doing 30 mph with nothing but spandex and a helmet is going to end up with more expensive medical bills than someone in a motorcycle at the same speed with full gear(thick leathers, impact armor, full face helmet, full body coverage).


Again, my planned expenditures on the gear would probably be in the neighborhood of $2,500(Kevlar Mesh, with customer feedback rating it comfortable up to 85 degrees with liners, and 120 without. Today was a "hot" day at highs of 86). My attitude regarding traffic laws is to be a PITA walking around to the nearest crosswalk while my family jaywalks across a street with 2 lanes. My attitude towards other drivers when walking is to go around behind a car that's halfway sitting in the crosswalk for a right turn, so I generally don't expect other people to actually follow the law, because I realize that words on some piece of legislation will not physically stop people from running me over with a 3000 lbs brick on wheels.

 

[Haze]

I wear a moto-X helmet with goggles, they are cooler (temperature) than a standard full face helmet and they are also cooler. Goggles give you options for sunny, cloudy and night time riding as the lenses and even the goggles them selves are pretty inexpensive. I have had enough things hit them to know I need them. A good set of gloves and a good jacket are standar fair, too.

You do really need to stop over analysing and deliberating every likely type of crash you may or may not have, you will always have the one you never though of anyway. I have seen people killed in an accident you would have thought they could easily have walked away from and I have seen people walk away from mind bending smashes you would be sure had killed them to bits.

Get out on the road and start enjoying the rides we all enjoy on our motorised bicycles. :thumbup:

 

[sideways]

I still think you should take the bus or get a car.

The bus is cheap and practical. The car can carry lots of stuff and does not require protective gear.

I would not get or recommend a motorbike because of the risks involved. I have friends who work in insurance, the risks are real and very expensive. Both in the money and skin off your nose sense. I also had a friend who was paralysed from the waist down from just a small low speed spill. His life was prettt messed up after the accident.

 

[Noctis3880]

I still think you should take the bus or get a car.

Again...

The bus takes 1 hour, 1 way. It's not just me because my class ends at 12:00am sharp, every day. The bus can be ready to go in the lot(with 3 other buses behind it), or I might have to wait 20-25 minutes for the next one. It's long, it's unreliable, and it sucks up to 2 hours out of my day just to get from point A to point B and back again. Car is only a minor improvement because parking in campus can leave you circling up to an hour for a spot. Mopeds and motorcycles have their own areas and are usually not packed full(quite surprising given the number of college students riding the things, but perhaps this campus has more than enough spots for them).

The bus is cheap and practical. The car can carry lots of stuff and does not require protective gear.

Cheap, yes. Practical, no.

The car can carry a lot of stuff, but I've been living 26 years without really needing that carrying capacity, and the one time I did have a car, I never put anything more than another (just one)passenger or my backpack inside.

I would not get or recommend a motorbike because of the risks involved. I have friends who work in insurance, the risks are real and very expensive. Both in the money and skin off your nose sense. I also had a friend who was paralysed from the waist down from just a small low speed spill. His life was prettt messed up after the accident.

Ah, but without the circumstances surrounding the incidents(something missing from all the statistics), can we really make an accurate judgement of the real risks? In all incidences of both cars and 2-wheeler crashes, both speed and alcohol seem to be the major causes of most of them. What kind of gear was your friend wearing? What were the circumstances surrounding the crash? Did he have impact armor over his spine?

You also have to consider the fact that there are a LOT of young guys with an overabundance of testosterone that tend to ride motorcycles, typically much faster than the flow of traffic or posted speed limits. More so than those with cars(as a percentage of car drivers anyway).

I'm not arguing that motorcycles are safer than cars. But I sincerely doubt mopeds are safer at the same speeds. I also believe that with good gear, good training, and the proper attitude and respect of the risks involved, the risks can be mitigated to a point where they're acceptable. There are also advantages to motorcycles, not the least of which is the aforementioned easier parking and better mileage. Also, it seems like insurance is considerably cheaper too(from Progressive).

 

[sideways]

I wouldn't recommend a scooter either.

You did not factor in the time to put on and remove safety gear on both ends and the PITA of humping that stuff around with you all day at campus.

The friend was taking care and wearing all the necessary gear. My part in that story was mostly just carrying his wheels up and down stairs, as well as helping with the other day to day things he could no longer manage on his own. Back injuries are a funny thing.

 

[Noctis3880]

I wouldn't recommend a scooter either.

Sanity at last.

You did not factor in the time to put on and remove safety gear on both ends and the PITA of humping that stuff around with you all day at campus.

It's a jacket and pants. I plan to wear the gear itself as my clothing, so really the only extra time spent is putting on one more pants, one jacket, the gloves, and the helmet. Riding boots I wouldn't expect to be much different than my usual boots(Bates). 2 minutes tops. Helmet and gloves will be stored in a locked topcase.

The raincoat I normally use is a typical polyester shell variety. Very thick, very heavy, DAMNED hot. I still lug the thing around to class. The riding gear in question uses the liners for waterproofing.

You think it's a PITA, but there are more than enough people(even in Hawaii) who wears all their gear enough for there to be an internet slang for it:

The friend was taking care and wearing all the necessary gear. My part in that story was mostly just carrying his wheels up and down stairs, as well as helping with the other day to day things he could no longer manage on his own. Back injuries are a funny thing.

What kind/brand/coverage? No offense, but a lot of the "gear" on the market would actually increase the risk of injury. A perfect example would be the type with polyester/polyurethane as part of the shell, which would literally melt to your skin under the friction and require a skin graft. This would be especially true if you're cheaping out on the gear(very likely if you're trying to spend under $1,000 on a moped).

 

[sideways]

ATGATT is about wearing everything whenever you ride. Not about wearing it when you get off the bike.

The specifics of what gear or how the crash went down i never found out. He was wearing his kit for what it is worth and I assume he had spine protection. Low speed, not really his fault. Just no extra bubble to protect him like with a car.