Safety of non-locking folders like Boy Scout & SAK

T

theyoungone

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Jul 19, 2013
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I want to get a folder for my 11 year old nephew who is also in the Boy Scouts. Apparently the don't make "Boy Scout" Knives anymore, but Victorinox makes a "Hunter" Swiss Army knife with Boy Scout Emblem.

SA55201.jpg


The funny thing is I grew up on similar folding knives, but as I got older and got into the "sickness" that is modern knife collecting, all my folders have locking blades. I got this weird concern that maybe the blade will fold back on his fingers with use, even though it never happened to me. On a side note if I had a similar knife as an EDC, would it be completely ineffective as a Self Defense weapon?

Anyway just curious on everyone's thoughts. If I hear nothing but horror stories, I'll just get him a regular locking folder or a small multi-tool.
 
I don't have any horror stories, but if you're concerned, there are options. Victorinox makes a One handed Trekker with a locking blade that's a little larger (111mm vs. 84 or 93mm) but a similarly good first knife and multitool.
 
Safety is in the hand of the holder... The scouts should be teaching the safety techniques required.
 
In my opinion, learning to use a non-locking knife will benefit a young person most. He will treat the cutting edge and tip with more respect if it can fold back on him with improper use. Probably the best building block in usage for somebody who wants to keep all his fingers long term.

As to your question of such a knife as a self defense weapon, I always have my fingers crossed that the next James Bond or Jason Bourne movie will feature the good guy making do with such an option in a knife mismatch with the bad guy :D
 
Locks can fail. If you know the blade will close on you then you will be more careful since you won't have a false sense of security.

Many people argued in another thread that locks aren't a safety feature...

Victorinox knives are excellent. Easy to get very sharp, highly corrosion resistant, many useful tools, inexpensive to replace, etc.
 
I had a knife similar to the one in your picture for years as a scout with no problems! Keep the blade sharp and cut in the correct direction and all is well. The best thing to do is teach your kids proper safety and use of knives.
 
jakemex said:
Safety is in the hand of the holder... The scouts should be teaching the safety techniques required.
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Exactly this. A Boy Scout must learn cutting tool safety and earn his "Totin' Chip" before he can use any type of "woods tool". After he earns it, if he is caught violating any of the rules, he has a corner cut from his "chip" or card. When he violates it four times, he loses the privilege and must re-earn his "Chip" by going through the requirements all over again.

In our troop, we leaders had no patience for any kind of foolishness when it came to knives and other cutting implements.
 
I think a slip joint as your first knife is a great idea. It teaches one to think first, cut second. Depending on his age and maturity I would introduce him to a pocket knife under supervision first. Have him out doing yard work or something, make sure he shows care in the opening, closing, and actual cutting with the knife. After a few separate occasions of him showing responsibility, Let him maintain a more unfettered access to three blade.
 
Don't stab anything. I learned that lesson quick with my first knife, stabbed it in a tree and it folded on my finger and went to the bone. Luckily it was pretty dull or I could have cut my finger off.
 
Daddyo16 said:
Exactly this. A Boy Scout must learn cutting tool safety and earn his "Totin' Chip" before he can use any type of "woods tool". After he earns it, if he is caught violating any of the rules, he has a corner cut from his "chip" or card. When he violates it four times, he loses the privilege and must re-earn his "Chip" by going through the requirements all over again.

In our troop, we leaders had no patience for any kind of foolishness when it came to knives and other cutting implements.
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It my troop they cut off a corner before they handed you the card, and if the leaders caught anyone doing something extra foolish they'd cut off two corners. They didn't mess around when it came to knife handling safety.
 
I still have my old slipjoint BSA knife. Only non locking knife I'll keep.

I've learned my lesson about non locking knives and if you buy knives with stout locks the blade will break before the lock gives.


My son will start scouts soon, it'll be interesting to see where we go with his knife. He could learn a lot from a cheap slipjoint of questionable steel but get more utility out of a nice modern knife. Like the megumi
 
A rite of passage in Scouting was learning knife safety. One wasn't allowed to handle knives until then. Perhaps in our bubble wrap Gluten-free PC world of today that skillset training is lost to that organisation in an "official" sense, but hopefully there are still traditional leaders out there that continue to provide skills and value systems every boy or girl should know. Relying on "locks" on knives are an inferior safety process to easily taught common sense rules and behavior systems. I believe a dependance mentality towards alleged "safety" of certain objects, i.e. knife "locks", has often trancended sane behavior. On this forum there are plenty of examples of blaming improper tool use for one's misfortune, and I'm sure there are plenty of emergency rooms full of examples out there in the "real world". I've seen "knife guys" who have only come up through the liner lock era cut themselves, not badly but needlessly, on unfamiliar (slipjoint) folders simply through bad handling technique, and I've thought to myself: "you weren't in Scouts, were you?"
 
I admit to being old fashioned, but them I am old so I claim that right. I think all kids should have a slip joint non locking knife as their first knife. Maybe even their second knife. Learning good knife handling habits will go much farther than him learning to put his trust in a mechanical device like a lock. They have been known to fail. Just because the cart has seat belts and air bags, does that make good driving habits obsolete?

I've witnessed two very bad outcomes from some young guy trusting his lock too much. Inone case, a young guy who worked in our shop, kept doing some stupid things with his Buck 110 folding hunter, and when told twice by the older guys in the shop to knock it off, his reply was "It's a Buck knife, it'll take it." Well, it didn't. S little after lunch, he very neatly amputated the right index finger, and almost made it through the middle finger. The forman ran upstairs while the ambulance was on the way, and got a cup of ice to put the finger in. They reattached it, but it was partly useless afterward. The kid was fired not long after his accident.

A few years later after I retired, I was having trouble with a tendon in my left thumb, and went to a hand surgeon for a outpatient surgery on it. While waiting to be taken back in the OR, There was a young guy, maybe late teens, who was sitting across from my better half and I. He had his right hand bandaged up, and was waiting to got back into surgery. It came out in conversation between his mother and my wife that his high end tactical knife had folded up on him when the liner lock gave out. He was trying to see how many layers of cardboard he could stab through.

A knife is a cutting tool. If you want to stab, go get a sheath knife, they don't fold. If you want a weapon and are worried about self defense, go gat some pepper spray or a CCW. But learning bad knife habits by starting out with a locking knife that may or may not one day fail, is a poor way to learn safe knife handling skills. Funny thing, people used slip joints for hundreds of years, and they didn't loose fingers.

I'd get him that SAK.
 
Never had a lock back until I was in my thirties. Got me first knife when I was 5. Got first Case fixed blade at 6. Got cut a few times. Never needed stitches.
Don't be over protective.
You can get avenger lock back in the Eva grip series.
 
For the reasons already said, all need to start with a non locking knife.
 
I have to disagree with all the members recommending your son learn to use a non locking knife.

I like slip joints/traditionals. I own a bunch. I learned that I can't poke/stab/dig with a slip joint. I learned by getting a nasty gash on my middle finger.

I would never want that for my own daughter. As a parent, if that ever happened to my daughter, I'd throw out every knife I own in a fit of guilt.

Get him a locking knife.

He's got plenty of time to learn to use a knife as an adult, with adult sized fingers. With 11 year old fingers, and 11 year old coordination, and 11 year old sense, get him a locking knife.
 
calvinw said:
I have to disagree with all the members recommending your son learn to use a non locking knife.

I like slip joints/traditionals. I own a bunch. I learned that I can't poke/stab/dig with a slip joint. I learned by getting a nasty gash on my middle finger.

I would never want that for my own daughter. As a parent, if that ever happened to my daughter, I'd throw out every knife I own in a fit of guilt.

Get him a locking knife.

He's got plenty of time to learn to use a knife as an adult, with adult sized fingers. With 11 year old fingers, and 11 year old coordination, and 11 year old sense, get him a locking knife.
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A locking knife for a first knife is a crutch for learning proper knife handling.
 
calvinw said:
I have to disagree with all the members recommending your son learn to use a non locking knife.

I like slip joints/traditionals. I own a bunch. I learned that I can't poke/stab/dig with a slip joint. I learned by getting a nasty gash on my middle finger.

I would never want that for my own daughter. As a parent, if that ever happened to my daughter, I'd throw out every knife I own in a fit of guilt.

Get him a locking knife.

He's got plenty of time to learn to use a knife as an adult, with adult sized fingers. With 11 year old fingers, and 11 year old coordination, and 11 year old sense, get him a locking knife.
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Sounds dangerously similar to the "everyone gets a trophy" mindset... I played sports and never got a trophy because I sucked- I don't want my kids to feel bad like that so now everyone gets a trophy... Instead of kids learning how to do things well and finding the ONE or TWO things they are really good at, we make kids believe they are good at EVERYTHING and setting them up to learn ever HARDER lessons in the real world. I digress though...

First knife should be a slipjoint. Mine was and I cut myself. Once. I may carry a locking folder now most days- but I feel just as capable and safe with a slipjoint because I know how to use a knife and appreciate the fact that it can hurt me. I learned my lesson young (when things heal fast). :D
 
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